Let's have it all please - The National Childbirth Trust

[Rhiannon]

Lil, Croppy et al. The NCT is a national organisation there are over 400 branches. New branches being set up in Northern Ireland and Dundee at the moment. They are all over London. Everyone at your local NCT is a volunteer if you volunteer your services to set up a working Mum's group or any other type of group within the branch, I know they will be very grateful. If you don't like the women at the local branch go to the next one up the road it's not a problem. If you are having problems let me know where you are and I'll find out the contact names and numbers for you. Ask if they have Bumps and Babes which is a group especially to introduce people. As you can tell I am passionate about the NCT (I am not left wing or a veggie, I don't wear beads and I didn't even breast feed!). We welcome all newcomers so if you live near junction 25 of the M25 you are very welcome. Phew! Or just call head office on 0208 992 8637 for more advice.

Actually Rhiannon, I will definitely make more of an effort with the NCT next time around. One of the reasons I didn't go to any coffee mornings and so on during my maternity leave was that I felt that I might encounter a less than friendly reception given my relatively speedy return to full time work.

My baby-life would have been very different if it wasn't for the NCT.

I remember going to the classes and hating the first one and thought I had nothing in common with the 5 others etc, but stuck at it, and all these years later, two of the mums are two of my best friends! Days with baby one would have been so different without it. The 3 of us and babies discovered the world of motherhood together, it would have been so different (and lonely) if I hadnt have gone. We moved out of the area when having baby two and I got in touch with the local group here, very scary but I stuck with it and went to the coffee mornings for a year or so. I got involved with other things they were doing, fundraising etc, to get to meet and talk to the mums without children about.

There are some many notions and ideas about NCT, my favourite is that we all have drug free labour and do natural childbirth (yeh right!!). The breastfeeding support I have received from their counsellors has been BRILLIANT. Any advice you need about anything is only a phone call away.

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RobinW, both my groups went through phases of working mother groups in the evenings, and lots more evening social do's, for those who didnt like coffee mornings or couldnt get to them, baby sleep times etc. A good group varies its 'meets' depending on the needs of the group, if working mothers want something then get it started. Its not the NCTs fault if there isnt one in your area.

The people that organise the NCT locally are just other local Mums. They will organise coffees and meet ups to suit themselves as they are volunteers working for free for a good cause and they need to fit things in around their own lives. If you get involved and can offer your support for a few hours a month then you can help organise all sorts of groups, especially working Mums. The NCT is a social group, a great way of networking and making new friends. No one is qualified to give medical advice, except the ante natal teachers, breastfeeding counsellors.
If there is no NCT in your area, why not start one up? Head Office will support you in every way, you do not nead to have BF counsellors etc to start up, just enthusiasm.

The NCT is 45 years old this year. It is responsible for:

FATHERS/PARTNERS BEING ALLOWED INTO LABOUR WARDS
ABOLISHING ENEMAS AND SHAVING BEFORE BIRTH
WOMEN NO LONGER BEING SEPARATED FROM THEIR BABIES AFTER GIVING BIRTH
PAID PATERNITY LEAVE SOON TO BE INTRODUCED
HOPEFULLY LOWERING THE HUGE INCREASE IN THE CASEAREAN BIRTHRATE

Why not join and support a great charity, it costs just £3 a month for the first year (payable in a lump sum) and just over £2 a month after that (£26 in a lump sum).

Er...Rhiannon... the NCT is a wonderful organisation and we've worked with them on a number of occasions, but they aren't responsible for paid paternity leave - I have been the main lobbyist on that issue with the DTI, and I'd say the responsibility lies mainly with Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Stephen Byers and Alan Johnson (a minister at the DTI). I'd like to say Fathers Direct have been a bit responsible as well, but the NCT havn't really been involved in the lobbying, and aren't involved in advising on implementation at all.

This is more of a "set the record straight", not a dig at NCT, who I think are great.

Well I could swear that they've been working on it too, perhaps the thought was there but not the money.

Rhiannon, I found my NCT antenatal classes really helpful thanks to an excellent teacher, and made one good friend from the four couples we met (and meet occasionally with two others, they have moved house since). But I'm sorry - round my part of London most of the active members are unwelcoming, intimidating SAHMs. I went to a couple of postnatal meetings that were supposed to welcome mums and new babies and they just weren't that friendly.
I sent off my form yesterday to rejoin as I think the NCT has done a great job on the lobbying and policy front. I am quite serious about setting up a Working Parents Group in my part of town and would like to get it done under the NCT umbrella, because I am sure there are other mums like me who just felt shunted out of it all once it was known we were going back to work. Change from within and all that.

Rhiannon - they have been working on it - we issued a joint research project with them last year that called for paternity leave, and I'm sure they included it in their dealings with the DTI, but they're not the lead body on the issue - Fathers Direct are - we ran seminars for ministers on the issue and are advising the government on implementing it.

Marina ditto to your experiences.

Rhiannon, I did actually host a cofee morning, thinking i should do my part. But no-one came!!because no-one knew my name and so didn't bother. I can't see me setting up a working mums evening because of that experience.i.e. unless you went to the antenatal group (which I didn't0 and made your friends there, people don't seem to want to make the effort to know new members. i feel like I am 'begging' for a new friend - which always puts people off.!

Lil, each branch produces a newsletter (as you may know) how about a little paragraph saying you are interested in setting up a group and get people to contact you and take it from there. It'll sound like the branch is establishing a group, not you desparate for a social life!! Honest.

Where I lived previously they did great evenings, apart from the restaurant/drink sessions they had talks from Nanny people, how to choose, sorting out tax/ins, all that stuff. Nurseries, childminders. Milk things - freezing storing, expressing. All the things that we seem to mention on here, all the things you want to know but never get the time to do when you're working and juggling everything else.

Apparently the Body Shop do direct selling now, as in they come to your home and pamper someone and have products around, a few people I know have had girly evenings like that, and raised money for the NCT along the way.

There are so many things that could be done, as always it needs one persons enthusiasm to get the ball rolling.

intimidating SAHMs - what are they, please explain.....?

Stay At Home Mums!(as opposed to non-working mums which is non-PC as all mums work!!)

On this subeject, there was an excellent article in part 2 of the Times yesterday which talked about the growing hostility between SAHM's and "working mothers". Was nicely balanced for a change and concluded that everybody was doing what they thought best for their families and that the most important thing was for the mother to be happy. Also made the point that the most important thing was for all sorts of mothers to have more self confidence about their choices.

Final conclusion was that the secret of being a happy mother, whatever you're circumstances is to accept your lot, get on with it, give up the mudslinging and stop moaning. (not convinced on the moaning bit!).

Actually I had an interesting experience along the lines of this discussion. I went to a large dinner party last week where I only knew a couple of the guests. Very unusually, we brought along our 17 month old and after around 30 minutes of playing with the other guests (none of whom had children) put him to sleep in a bedroom. It quickly became apparent that all the other guests automatically made the assumption that I didn't work and stayed at home looking after our son. This wasn't made obvious in a direct way, just that nobody asked me about what I did and I was all but ignored during much of the subsequent conversation. When my husband asked me some details on takeover legislation (one of the people there had a small co. in the process of being bought out) the confusion on their faces was a joy to behold. I really found it amazing that people made such blanket assumptions and felt sympathy for all those SAHM's !!.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,7-100914,00.html the article Bells was talking about.
Marina, i am about to become an SAHM, are they all unwelcoming and intimidating in your opinion?

Croppy, you will get very, very used to people making those assumptions.

eg: Go into a car showroom with your husband baby. See how the salesperson talks to you about safety and security and talks to your husband about performance and finance.

Yeah Tigermoth - guess I've got used to that attitude from people like car salesman, just wan't expecting my own peers to automatically assume that baby = no career or interesting conversation.

Go to a nursery with wife and baby... see how they talk to your wife about health, safety, activities, routines and feeding, and how they talk to you about cost!!!

I don't think Marina was suggesting that all SAHMs are unwelcoming and intimidating, but I do know where she is coming from. Last summer as part of the year 2000 celebrations our town held a week long set of activities. One of the days was a toddler group picnic and activity session with a music show in the afternoon. I took the day off work and went with my mum and my little boy, who was about 15 months then. It was really cliquey and I felt very out of place. You could see them looking at me and then talking to each other, probably wondering who the hell I was.

I'm too knackered to join a working mums group in the evening - plus by the time tea, bath and bed is done its 8.30 and I just want to crash. Saturday mornings would be good, but I've got to do things like go to Tescos and other chores. I guess you just can't win.

My sister is SAHM and even she finds some of the other SAHMs intimidating - especially the set in the next village that put their children in the creche and go to the gym together! They really are a very snobby lot (of course, not everyone who goes to the gym is snobby!!).

Emmagee, not a bit of it. My four closest friends are SAHMs but two of them live far away from me (Edinburgh, Guildford, nice for weekends etc but we can't just drop in on each other anymore).
I think the problem was more with the socio-economic thing round where we used to live. My ex-part of SE London does attract people who live to swank a bit about their lifestyle and rub your nose in it if you work outside the home, on the assumption that it must be because your husband just doesn't earn enough to keep you all.
The NCT locally at the time of our son's birth was rather dominated by these people and I'm afraid there are a few of them at the church where we worship.
None of them are people you would choose to be friendly with, but when you've been told that the NCT is your entree into mummy and baby society locally, you hope you will get on with them and it is discouraging to be, as Jilly Cooper put it, "spat out like a screw out of a hoover".
My SAHM chums find the NCT a bit much too, at times.

I went to a car showroom to test drive a car (for me) on my own with babe and was asked if my husband knew and we'd talked about it!? I can't believe in this day and age they still make these assumptions and say them!!

He put the radio on during the test drive as he obviously thought being a female I was dim and there would be no point in conversation, as it was I completely threw him with my technical and vehicle knowledge and needless to say didnt buy the car from him because of this and went through the internet instead.

God I wish you lot would stop banging on about mums that don't work outside the home. I can't believe there are really mothers who are unfriendly purely BECAUSE you work - its quite common these days you know! Yes, some NCT groups are quite cliquey, like all groups, but believe me, it doesn't make any difference whether you work or not! Some of us cliquey SAHMs would love to do some paid work but can't because of our circumstances, some of us are lucky enough not to have to and get enough fulfillment being at home with our babies. I like this site but the last thing mums need are other mums sniping at their life choices. I stay at home with my daughter and amazingly I also have lots of friends with kids who work and guess what - we all have happy, healthy children.

Why not look at it the other way round. Not all SAHM are that through choice. Weighing up the cost of professional childcare to their earning power it may not be possible to return to work financially. What about SAHM's like me who work from home helping with my husband's business. I am seen as a SAHM but am very much working - that's when I haven't got my big nose in this website!