Overnight cluster feeding newborn

[whyyy321]

Is this normal? Second baby but first was formula fed. Has been feeding almost constantly since midnight, maybe dozed for 20 min twice? Had something similar for 2 nights, maybe 3 days ago. Baby is 6 days old so happened day 3,4 and 6 I think.

Was weighed day 3 and lost 8% body weight, weighted yesterday day 5 and hadn't gained (but hadn't lost).

Is this cluster feeding? Or is she hungry and I have a poor supply? She's content on boob but angry off, I just checked and there is still milk coming if I hand express despite 6 hours of constant feeding.

I don't mind if it's actually meant to happen! Desperately want bf to work this time. Surely she's full and knackered??

Look on YouTube for paced bottle feeding.
Finish her at the breast.
Give the top ups early evening. Give baby to your DH, spend the time doing bedtime with the toddler and getting some sleep.
If you want to increase supply you can see your GP and ask about domperidone.
You do not have to give up BF. I had low supply due to a medical issue and still BF both children, I just had to work out how and when to top up.

So HV has been and she's back over birth weight, having gained just over 100g in a week. The HV was pleased with this as it's double what she gained the week before, with the tongue tie having been cut at the start of this more recent week. She agreed with the formula top ups I think more for my sanity than weight gain but both will be benefits of it.

I do think this is starting to risk my mh now so I'm keen to start the top ups and see how we go, with a view to maybe moving to regular bottle feeds 2 or so times a day once past 6-8 weeks with a more settled supply that will adjust accordingly.

Well done op and yes look after yourself too x

I found it really helpful for my mental health to have three hours “off duty” every day when my DH was at home and he took responsibility for all baby care including feeds. Combi-feeding made that possible and meant there was something to look forward to every day.

Initially I’d use it to get some sleep, or have a long soak in the bath. Once I was more rested I’d go out and meet up with friends. It also meant DD and DH developed an amazing bond!

I have insufficient glandular tissue and I am a lactation consultant and by my third I was done with the idea of pumping. I just moved to giving formula via SNS on the breast, so she breastfed and got formula, was faffy for a week or so and then so easy I could do it standing up on a train. Was also convenient, didn't ruin supply or my mental health and all my babies were happier with enough milk. It was just breast, insert the tube, finish the feed done.

Looking back I would have done some things differently, with everything I have learned about pumping recently I'd have given it another go working with someone who really does know how to fit a pump and support pumping properly,.
I didn't try domperidone with my youngest having had no success previously but I wish I had done as I had better supply with her and it may have worked. If she'd have taken a bottle I would have done some. With my son I mixed SNS and bottles and it worked fine (breastfed until 15 months) and the break was great.
I might have used donor milk but my husband was uncomfortable with unpasteurised donor milk so maybe not.

Its worth seeing formula as filling a calorie gap. For whatever reason your supply is not currently great whether that's genuine IGT, a poor start or low prolactin and formula is there to fill the gap, if your supply increases the amount of formula will drop. When you start solids, they often fill the gap and you can begin to wean off the formula if you want to.

I have to say I think IGT doesn't sound very likely from your history with your son and you can't judge it on breast shape only. Usually IGT has a very particular history eg some of irregular or minimal periods as a teenager, minimal breast growth in pregnancy, breast surgery esp reduction. Did the LC discuss ways of increasing supply other than pumping for example medication, using compressions, switch feeding. If your baby had a tongue tie cut, did the TT practitioner or the LC check the palate? is it high? sometimes a little bit of pressure under the jaw when feeding, can help milk transfer. Whoever cut the tie might also have some helpful tips if it hasn't really improved things.

Equally it's a perfectly valid choice to just give some bottles and see how you go. I know plenty of people who have just added in as many bottles a day as needed to maintain weight gain and their babies have continued breastfeeding, often until well over a year and we all feel better once we see our babies growing and we get some sleep!

Thanks for these messages, I'm finding this all really helpful.

Regarding the igt - the shape applies to me but not the hormonal aspect, I've always had regular periods and no issues conceiving with either of my babies. My breasts did get bigger I think in pregnancy though not massively so.

We tried a bottle this evening about 10pm, she took 25ml of expressed (I'm using the haakaa to collect when she's feeding from one side) which I think is a good start. Planning to add formula tomorrow (only didnt tonight because it was late and I am worried it'll upset her tummy and I'd rather she struggled in the day than the middle of the night).

Question though, how quickly after a feed are you offering top ups and at what point would you think better just wait for next feed? She'd fed till 9 and zonked out, I told DH to offer right away but he didn't want to wake her. It meant I got more sleep but aware that's then going to delay feeds... But if I want him to do a feed so I can sleep every night does that even matter?

Another question - last 3 nights she won't sleep at night (in her cot, she sleeps on DH during his shift) or really on me (wakes every 10-20 min). I think it might be gas but could also be hunger? I'm exhausted as I'm only getting the 3 hours DH has her at the start of the night. What do I do?? My son was more reliably sleeping in 2 hour blocks so I could get some rest. She was doing that until about 3 nights ago!

Should say I've tired cosleeping but she can't feed from me laying down I think because of the way my boobs are/this possible igt thing, she can't latch on.

Did the LC talk about watching for swallowing? Typical advice would be if she’s swallowing well at the breast carry on, ( swallowing every 1-2 sucks is well) if she’s not use breast compressions when they stop working switch breasts, repeat and switch back until no longer really swallowing well then offer top up.

It stops these long feeds and a baby who is too tired to feed more but hasn’t really had enough milk. I think you’ll find your nights will improve once she’s eating more.

For mums who want to pump it also frees up some time to do it, it’s really normal for babies who are gaining slowly to feel like they feed all the time and there literally is not a second to offer a top up/punp/sleep but they’re still not getting enough milk so it’s important to break the cycle and stop the long breastfeeds.

I hope it all comes together for you!

If she is zonked out, follow her lead, especially if you are offering formula as it will make you both fall into the "top up trap".

She's 3ish weeks? Perfectly normal behaviour. She is TINY and has no idea of the world. Sometimes babies come out and are very sleepy for a few weeks and are basically super compliant and lull you into a false sense of security ... then they wake up and become needier! (This was my second baby).

Oh also try a rolled up muslin/towel under your breast when lying down.

I could never master feeding lying down! I think my boobs were too big/babies too small!

Have a chat with your DH because he can tolerate some tiredness, you it sounds like are not getting any sleep! What helped me was feeding/pumping at say 9ish and then going to bed, DH did next feed (formula/ebm) and then came to bed, and I did the next feed. If we got lucky that meant I slept 9.30-1/2/3 whenever that next feed was. Honestly skipping one feed for some sleep probably won’t affect your supply but it will protect your MH!

If this ^ doesn’t suit your family then maybe DH taking baby early in the morning (4/5am) after a feed and you then get some sleep. If he’s WFH can he wear baby in a sling for an hour so you can nap?

This bit, is HARD, but it doesn’t last forever. I hope you’re okay xxx

Thanks again all, sorry I'm having such a moan! She's my second so I know it'll pass, it's just hard in a different way bf her (versus bottle feeding her brother when he was newborn).

Just did my first formula top up, she took a lot but luckily the HV warned me she would even if she had had a good feed from me first, or I'd have felt quite upset I think. It felt quite emotional but focusing on weight gain and I'll be happy when I see her chunking up. She's back on boob now so that's helped me feel reassured she'll still latch etc.

Ended up cosleeping last night so I've had a bit more sleep and feel slightly more sane. Bit frustrating as I've worked quite hard on transfering to the cot this last week or so but she slept much better next to me so I guess it's a problem for later. Again different as I never co slept with her brother as I wasn't bf and they don't really recommend it then. What a rollercoaster.

Starting with two top ups (morning and evening) with the aim to add a lunchtime or late pm one once DH is settled back at work, she took about 40ml earlier after 40 min at breast so hopefully we see some results. Not getting weighed again till 6 weeks but hoping for a really good gain then.

She had a huge "top up" (80ml!!?) with dh at 9 and slept till 1... Longest she's gone. Am I starving her with BM??

No you are absolutely not starving her! Because formula is modified cows milk it takes longer to digest in a baby's stomach, which is why she slept for longer. Breast milk is just more easily absorbed, plus baby also feeds for comfort and to be in their safe place 😊

It sounds like you are doing a great job, OP!

That’s not a huge top up at all. Mine was on 8 x 40ml top ups per day at five days old! (Paediatrician advised)

Thanks all, you've all been so nice and reassuring! The top ups have been going well, she's conking out after most of them which I suppose means she's satisfied.

Overnight I'm struggling with the cot, her brother was always quite good in the cot but she will do maybe the first bit 10-1 but then will wake after 45 min max in the cot. I have her in a next to me but I've added in a moses basket inside it as she's small as I wondered if she isn't cosy.

I'm having to co sleep once DH brings her up at 1 and I hate it. I don't sleep well for fear of hurting her and I hate the sensation of her feeding whilst I lay down.

Any tips or just reassurance I can get her in the cot soon? I am worried about setting up a habit I can't break and I am finding the whole thing horribly overstimulating and overwhelming thinking I'm stuck with this till I can night wean and sleep train.

None of mine went into the crib without being swaddled, have you tried that?

We had a swaddle wrap thing that helped. I couldn’t stand co-sleeping and refused to do it!

My friend did offer to lend me a swaddle today so maybe I'll try that! I worry she'll choke on the vomit so when we cosleep I can tip her on her side which can't happen if she's swaddled I guess but maybe the swaddle will mean she sleeps better and isn't wriggling about vomming anyway!

Hello, just a quick update (and question) as you were all so helpful!

Had a 6 week review today and she's gained just shy of 1lb in 2 weeks with the new regime. We are bf all day and evening, handing to DH about 9/930 and he gives a bottle of formula somewhere between then and midnight (if after midnight he's under instructions to just bring her up to me to bf so I don't go too long and get sore). She sometimes (maybe 50%) has formula in the day but as she's usually just with me I don't often bother and just let her bf on demand. We saw a baby chiropractor as recommended by our LC as she's struggling to be comfortable on my left boob as she's not happy turning her head that side - so hopefully that'll help loosen her up as I'm concerned I'm not producing as much milk that side as a result. GP and HV happy with weight gain and generally with her overall which is great!

Question though- eg tonight she finished bf about 915, and DH gave her formula at 11.15 when she stirred. She slept until 2.45 when I semi woke her (was stirring but might have gone back down) to feed as I was feeling heavy/full. So that's 5.5 hours, oops. Is this an issue supply wise? We stick to the same routine but some nights she has the formula earlier and then bf more like 1am meaning only 3.5 hour gap. So it's a bit different every night. Generally after this "first" bf she'll feed again 2-3 hours later max (eg 330 if it was 1am or 4-5ish if it was 2/3am). I'll usually then feed her about 6/7am so DH can take her on dog walk whilst I snooze and extra hour.

Am I risking supply with these variable windows? During rest of the day/evening she bf on demand which is often every 1-2 hours, never more than 3. She's 6 weeks as of start of the week.

Also whilst I'm thinking of it, are we burping bf babies overnight?

Thanks!

It's just a one off, she's going a little longer, it sounds fine.

Is she very gassy? Because of the way they attach to the breast, a BF baby shouldn't take in much air. I wouldn't bother unless she's clearly uncomfortable. If she does take in a lot of air when feeding, it may be that her latch isn't optimal.

My baby was also uncomfortable on one side, I used the rugby hold for that side and it was a life saver. You need more pillows than you think to make it comfortable but once you get it right, it's excellent.

Waking up with full painful boobs while your baby is happily sleeping is pretty standard. It's awful. I have cried next to my son's crib at 3am more than once because I was in pain from all the milk and absolutely exhausted from not sleeping for months and couldn't take advantage of him randomly sleeping through the night here and there😭 around the 3/4 month mark he would spend 3 nights feeding ALL night and then 3 nights sleeping like an angel but I would just sit there at 3am, awake, and in pain, having to get up to express and sobbing because I couldn't get any rest because of breastfeeding.

I didn't burp him in the night unless he was uncomfortable.

Thanks again for all this helpful advice!

I'm getting conflicting info from friends and the LC. Baby is feeding all day on demand, with the exception of one bottle of formula at 11pm before DH goes to bed. She has that and then will sleep about 3-4 hours, but I will have gone 4-5.5/6 hours without feeding or pumping (as I go to bed after cluster feeding finishes around 930). He brings her in to me after the formula, and if she's not woken by 230/3 I wake her to feed.

I'm finding this hugely helpful for my sanity as I'm getting 4 hours of sleep in a row most nights, rather than the 2-3 I was getting before. Plus I'm happy to know she's definitely getting X volume from the bottle from a weight gain perspective.

I'm struggling though as the LC told me I'm going to ruin my supply, so now I feel I have to give up the block of sleep or give up bf? I have asked for clarity - does she mean that supply for that time of the night will be low (which is fine, as I want to keep that bottle going) or does she mean all supply will be lowered by missing that feed? She didn't really answer. I can't see how it's the latter surely as baby feeds constantly all day and all evening, and has 2 other "night" feeds (around 2am and around 5am, then starts the "day feeds" around 830/9am - I am willing to bring this forward to compensate though). She's 6 weeks so some nights it's still chaos with hourly feeding.

I'm getting myself quite upset at the idea of this break being taken away or bf being taken away. Is it anyone's experience that it's been ok to replace a feed but bf all other feeds?

Baby has plenty of wet nappies (poos are less frequent but that appears to be constipation related to introduction of formula, not lack of intake). She was weighed middle of last week and had gained just under 1lb in 14 days (this regime has been going for probably half of those days, before she didn't go as long after the formula bottle and cluster fed in the early hours).

LC told me if baby was sleeping I have to keep waking to feed just to maintain supply, that seems insane for the mums physical wellbeing?? Obviously if baby was going like 6+ hours but she isn't (as she gets the formula). She is over birth weight too.

Help :(

And when I say feeds all day- rarely goes more than 1-2 hours between feeds and more often will feed every hour in the afternoon and evening for up to an hour at a time. Is she just stocking up in daytime or is she doing this because I've ruined supply? I'm awake feeding now and she's dozed off after not quite a full feed (one side full feed other side half) so surely isn't starving?