Overnight cluster feeding newborn

[whyyy321]

Is this normal? Second baby but first was formula fed. Has been feeding almost constantly since midnight, maybe dozed for 20 min twice? Had something similar for 2 nights, maybe 3 days ago. Baby is 6 days old so happened day 3,4 and 6 I think.

Was weighed day 3 and lost 8% body weight, weighted yesterday day 5 and hadn't gained (but hadn't lost).

Is this cluster feeding? Or is she hungry and I have a poor supply? She's content on boob but angry off, I just checked and there is still milk coming if I hand express despite 6 hours of constant feeding.

I don't mind if it's actually meant to happen! Desperately want bf to work this time. Surely she's full and knackered??

Don’t worry, if she’s not lost any that’s the main thing. If she is having wet and dirty nappies and her poo is yellow she’ll be getting enough. Sounds like you’re doing great, keep going! Feed as much as you can until the next weigh in.

I think when you are talking in such small weights even if the baby has wee’d or pooed recently it would make the weight lower than if she hadn’t (not saying that’s the case but could be a possibility). It sounds like you’re doing great and if she’s not losing that’s a really good sign.

Congratulations! Long term BF supporter here.

she is pooing and weeing lots which is great but the weight is a little bit of a concern. The cluster feeding also normal, but I would expect her weight to start going up a bit by now.

How do your breasts feel before/after a feed? Any lumpy/sore bits? Any nipple pain?

Please please please have a search online/ask on FB for a local breastfeeding group, ideally led by an IBCLC. I think you need to get your latch checked, and once that's sorted I think you'll be flying!

MWs are fab but I don't trust them to know enough to assess the latch.

Infant feeding team have checked her latch and given pointers, which is helpful.

I know nights are the worst for fear but I'm so worried about her not gaining, how is it possible to be bang on the same value 3x, 2 days apart? It was two different scales too so can't be that?

It’s still really early days. My niece only regained birth weight by week 3, but is now a very healthy 16 month old and still being exclusively breastfed. Keep going and don’t lose faith, the fact that she hasn’t lost is great. Make sure you’re eating lots yourself and try not to be stressed (stress really impacts supply). You’re doing wonderfully and so is she.

Just an update in the hopes some of you kind people will help me feel less overwhelmed at 3am when everyone else is asleep.

Got weighted today and she's only gained 20g in 4 days. The HV wasn't at all concerned and will weigh again next week, she was just pleased she's gained. She has done a referral to the infant feeding team for a tongue tie assessment which we will do on Friday though, which will hopefully either rule that out or get it sorted if she does have one. HV thinks she's a bit jaundiced still which might contribute to the energy she is using up.

She's been feeding on me since 11pm, I've not had a moment and she's not slept. Is this really a normal thing or am I making so little milk that she's starving? :(

I really don't want to give up breastfeeding but I'm not sure I'm doing any of this right.

She also won't lay on back at all so I'm having very very broken co sleep on the nights I'm getting any sleep. Midwives and HV say it's mucus as she was a C-section baby but it's not clearing, she doesn't bring anything up.

I'm starting to feel overwhelmed, if she'd just gain better or sleep on her back I'd feel we were going in the right direction at least

it does sound quite normal to me, but both my babies had latch and tongue tie issues so it did take longer to gain weight as the amount they took in used up so much energy I think it was sort of cancelling each other out. With my first, they had severe jaundice which also didn’t help and we had to do 20ml formula top ups for a while. But once the tongue issue was resolved we went on to exclusively bf. We avoided that with my second as her issues weren’t as severe. Good luck! Remember though that formula top ups aren’t a failure so if you’re worried or HV recommends it, it doesn’t mean the end of your journey.

It does sound as though it could be Tongue tie and I very much doubt it’s anything at all to do with your supply.

This article from Kellymom on increasing weight gain might be helpful.

You might want to call obe of the BFing Helplines this morning and talk through your concerns with a BFC, they will have all of the latest information and will be able to support you.

Has anyone suggested topping up with EBM and cup feeding?

Well done for persevering. It can be relentless at times particularly at the beginning. In a few weeks when things have settled down it will be so much easier than bottle feeding.

I would strongly resist giving any additional formula at this stage if there are no medical indications as it will mess up your supply. Same with expressing. She isn’t losing weight and the midwife doesn’t seem overly concerned so I’d trust her on this. As pp have said bottle fed and Bf babies progress differently.

I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I would also not worry too much if she won’t sleep on her back. She hasn’t read the advice after all! I am sure you are following all the guidance on safe co-sleeping with regard to pillows and duvets. I could never get the hang of feeding lying down so am impressed that you have. 👍🏼

I'm going to reiterate that you need to see a specialist breastfeeding supporter. Preferably an IBCLC. You may be able to find one locally privately, or a drop in facilitated by one. There may well be a tongue tie but even if there is, it's crucial to get specialist support after a snip as it's not a magic bullet.

Does she feed for very long amounts of time throughout the day? Or does she feed for a few minutes, fall asleep, waking acting starving half an hour later?

@CocoPlum she sleeps well after feeds during the day (not on her back but in our arms/in sling/in pram). She seems to want to feed every 3 hours though I'm trying to get her to feed every 2.5 hours. Then from about 11 wants constant feeding and isn't satisfied. Some feeds are better than others, some I need to burp/change nappy to keep her going.

She's variable with latch so I'm hoping the appointment with infant feeding team will help on Friday. I asked for that referral, the HV wasn't too concerned but was happy to try and rule out/spot a tongue tie to see if it helps as I'm also getting milk blebs and she's misshapinf the nipple.

She's doing 2/3 poos a day, plenty of heavy wet nappies. She's able to stay awake for a while between feeds and is looking around, raising her head etc.

I've been topping up with 10-30mls from the haakaa when I can, yesterday I got 50ml in to get that way. I'm only using the haakaa when she's coming to the end of a feed so I'm not getting much from it.

Has anyone shown you breast compressions?

Are you seeing an IBCLC in the feeding team or are they "just" midwives? Midwives are brilliant and wonderful but so many of them, even those in infant feeding, have inadequate breastfeeding education. I would start with googling IBCLC + your area and look for someone who is really specialised in breastfeeding support. As I said, a tongue tie snip is not a magic bullet and although can feel immediately different, it can take at least 2 weeks for a baby to gain full function - and if mum has been given poor support with latch, it can take longer.

(Am training to be a lactation consultant after 10+ years of supporting; also mum of two TT'd babies).

It's good that she is weeing and pooing and the feeding pattern seems OK but the lack of weight gain and misshapen nipples suggest a latch issue.

I'm not sure what they are trained as, it's the outpatient feeding team rather than the community one so I've to go to the hospital for the appointment. I'll ask!

Will have a Google. I did use a lactation consultant when my son was born but it was COVID so just had a video call and we got no where and I was pressured in to formula/expressing by day 2 by the midwives. I am in a different area this time though and have been much happier with the post natal care, especially how gentle everyone is being with my feelings about this.

Intense! I am not adverse at all to some formula I am just trying to hold out whilst supply regulates, I just am worrying that I'm doing it at the risk of her health.

Well done! You're doing a fantastic job.
All sounds perfectly normal to me. It feels like the feeding never ends but I promise you it does get easier and those gaps become longer. Baby is still putting their orders in with the milk man for your supply. If baby is having wet and dirty nappies and you're not in pain all is going well!

I’m so glad that everyone is being lovely with you.

Someone upthread mentioned trying some Breast Compressions, thought I would post this video from Dr Jack Newman that shows how to do them.

This video on getting a good latch might be useful of you want to check your latch too

Just posting an update as I'm still struggling a bit with this and am a bit confused.

Baby had a tongue tie cut yesterday (Tuesday), which was small and posterior. I feel she's been fussy since- waking after short naps, cluster feeding, crying a lot. Last night I was up 2-7am with her having lots of tiny feeds and not wanting to be put down. Today fussy again but some ok feeds and towards afternoon better sleep. Tonight is again not wanting to be put down but is knackered, had big feeds 8 and 9-10, then screamed till 11 (dh was trying to settle) but immediately quietened on boob. Now won't be out down, so I'm holding my eyes open at this stage.

She hasn't properly pooped since about 3am yday (so early hours weds). Did do a small one during the day today, plenty wet nappies.

I feel like I've broken her??

Also weight gain: she gained 50g in a week (week 2-3), now 50g off birth weight with HV looking for this target by 4 weeks (Tues next week). They (HV, feeding team) keep saying I'm doing "amazingly" but I know that's not true because they also said baby should gain 20g a day?? So 50g in a week is surely too little? They've got me doing a ten minute pump after feeds where I can to support supply but no other supplement feeding has been mentioned.

I feel like I'm going crazy because I'm obsessing about feeds and supply but tgey don't seem concerned? But that can't be right??

Big fight with dh about it today as he's frustrated I'm worrying when they aren't. Im sure supply must be low? Is that why slow gain and fussy for last 48 hours? Milk has started to visibly drop from me when she's crying, but then if I express after she's fed I only get 10-20ml??

I am driving myself mad!

I don’t have any advice but just thought I’d let you know I’m also awake due to my baby cluster feeding!

Im a FTM and my daughter is 11 days old, it’s hellish!! They didn’t mention cluster feeding in any of my classes because if they did I’m unsure if I would of gone down the breastfeeding route…

Everything you have described is quite similar to me, including the tongue tie (but we haven’t got it cut) my midwife said it’s all normal and part of a healthy development, and even though I know it’s all normal it doesn’t help when I’m so exhausted! Hang in there x

Sounds like you are driving yourself mad @whyyy321

Nothing you’ve posted suggests low supply. Your LO has had TT which will affect how the milk is transferred, it’s definitely not a sign of low supply. And the amount you can express is absolutely no reflection on the amount that you’re producing.

It might take a few days for them to settle after the TT was divided.

You could try some Calpol to see if that will help them settle but for today i would feed as a minimum of every 2 hours, use Breast Compressions and give one of the BFing Helplines a call and talk all of this through with a BFC

@whyyy321have you tried feeding lying down in bed too? I found this really helped either the feeds at night

@PixelRainboware you getting the TT divided?

OP you’ve been through a lot! My heart goes out to you it really does I’ve had really difficult breastfeeding experiences with all of mine and the worry of those early weeks and are they okay and regular weights etc… it’s all consuming.

I have to be brutally honest I’m really surprised the team supporting you haven’t put more of a plan in place, in my experience a baby not back at birthweight within 2 weeks is a concern, by 3 weeks okay if you’ve been able to correct some issues (like a tongue tie) but you’d hope then you’re on the way to good gains and feeding establishing well.

I would be urging you to seek specialist support, luckily since covid lots of lactation consultants (IBCLC’s) on consultations online which is quicker and cheaper! I can recommend two to you;

Lucy Webber (www.lmjinfantfeedingsupport.com)

Charlotte Trietl
(rebelmilk.co.uk)

OP, what a lot of parents are not told is: a TT snip is NOT a magic bullet.

The tongue is a complex set of muscles that has been restricted in movement for months.

Imagine you trained for a marathon for 9 months, but with your shoelaces tied together. On the morning of the marathon, we snipped them apart. You would probably spend a few moment swinging your legs around and then run it with the small restricted steps your muscles are used to.

When a TT is snipped, mothers often report an immediate difference in the first feed. Then there's a regression for a couple of days. It takes at least 2 weeks for the tongue to gain full movement. A good latch and positioning is crucial to act as a kind of physio - so once again I'll say, please seek out specialised support. From my own experience, I had a baby who took 5 weeks to really "click" for us with feeding after a tongue tie release in the first week.

Totally agree with this.

Please please try and see an experienced IBCLC, your baby is gaining slowly, probably not because you have low supply but because she is transferring milk poorly although by four weeks it may be hitting your supply too.

are you using compressions and switch feeding?
is your baby swallowing every 1-2 sucks through most of the feed?

swallowing is the way we know breastfed babies are getting milk, it’s the number one thing we need to look for

It’s likely at this point your baby needs some extra milk to help her gain better as babies who have been struggling often feed worse but an IBCLC will be able to give you a good plan.

This is likely a solvable problem, the last baby I saw with a similar history gained 11oz in a week with a good plan and moved over to exclusive breastfeeding within the fortnight but you really need to see someone good (often there’s free IBCLC groups or an IBCLC within the NHS but you may have to track them down)

Also try and do it face to face especially if you’d like help with pumping too. Some things are really easy to work on online but a good weight loss plan probably needs some actual eyes on you and your baby so they can check how her tongue is healing and her current function and help you with pump fitting.