I think I am in danger of being a toxic parent

[OrmIrian]

Not wishing to belittle the use of the word as I know many people use it here, but I can't think of any other way of putting it. I am a constant disappointment to my DD. I am so proud of her, anyone would be, she is intelligent, pretty, hard-working, popular and to everyone else she is kind and compassionate - just not to me. She is a perfectionist and I am not perfect. I am always too disorganised, I am never available for school trips or to help in class, she hates it that our lives are often a bit hectic. DH thinks I imagine it but he hasn't seen the way she looks at me sometimes. Our relationship has never been easy in the way it is with my sons.

We had an argument in the car on the way to her climbing club. She refused to talk to me when she got out and will probably still be sulking tonight. I cried on the way home I will apologise and she will grudgingly accept my apology but if I try to explain how she hurt me she will sulk some more.

I just know that in 9 years time she will out of the door so fast she'll leave scorch marks and never come home. I don't know what to do. I am like I am. I can't change to suit her. What can I do.

You could also try turning the factr that she sees you as disorganised (ie unpredictable?) tou your advantage - spontaneity.

Turn up as a surprise to an event.
Suddenly appear one evening with face packs and hair masks and a dvd and suggest an evening pampering.
Take all three for a picnic/walk on the beach/an open day, out of the blue, just like that.

Being fun and great to be around is often far more important than being a great secretary-type mother.

I think pre pubescent girls are incredibly judgey - and everyone else's mummy seems to cut the mustard.

"When I stayed with Juliette, we had croissants and hot chocolate in bed for breakfast on saturday, because that is what her mother does EVERY weekend"

"Isn't Charlotte's mother PRETTY. She always wears nice clothes".

"Cathy's parents all go surfing together - why don't we surf?" (snurk!!)

Oh yes, and stop explaining. You are the parent not the best mate.

"Put your coat on, please" is fine.

"Please put your coat on darling, or you will catch cold as it is windy outside and you don't want to get a chill blah blah blah" is room-for-arguement crap.

The more you say sorry, the less effective it is.

You are NOT sorry that they are late becuase they did not get into the car on time.

You are not sorry you got cross due to above scenario.

You are not sorry you have no white bread in the house.

etc.

My apologies are more often due to my getting cross rather than the above examples. But I guess I get cross because she reacts to that sort of stuff so I am apologising for it in the end.

I do think that apologising is important when you do something hurtful or unkind. I expect it from my DCs.

The really odd thing is I am so much better with the boys. And they respond to it better. I had a long think about it last night and I think it's partly a guilt thing as I suffered from PND when DD was a yr old and I spent a long time struggling to love her after that.

Agree with ggglimpopo - sometimes we need to simply tell them what to do without giving the reasons.

I find when I give dd 'why' explanations for each instruction, it often opens the door for discussion, argument and/or negotiation. Saying something as an absolute directive is no bad thing, imo. I need to learn to do more of it.

The sorry thing - interesting, I had a little episode with DD (6) this evening. She'd behaved outrageously, among other things encouraged her BF to disobey her mother when her mother was waiting to go home and put her to bed, and I was really angry with her and told her off and said I was disappointed in her behaviour and could she please get ready for bed.

So when it was time to tuck her up, she was crying away and demanding to make up, so I hugged her and kissed her and she said "but what do you usually do?" and I went through "tucking you up" "kissing you" "giving you your rabbit" etc. None of this was right. Eventually she said Ssssss.... and I said "Sleep tight?" and she said no, you're supposed to say sorry! I was flabbergasted! I said but I'm not sorry, you behaved very badly and I'm annoyed about it, but of course I want to make up.... anyway I'm not quite sure of what the point of the story is, but it's something to do with ggglimpo's point about saying sorry being less valued (and more expected?) the more you do it!

I wouldn't have said sorry unless I had lost my temper and shouted (not unheard of ). Did she say sorry for what she did?

The 'without being stroppy' is where I fall down I think . I don't challenge her until I get cross and shout... then I say sorry because I'm uber-polite

There are plenty of things we'd have to give up if I stopped work. Problem is that recently we've had a mini-bonanza because I had an unexpected bonus from work, and now it's gone we're having to pull in our horns. And she's not happy about that (who would be) She rides and goes climbing. She also wanted to start sailing with her brother and start swimming club. I told her she had to choose swimming or climbing and sailing or riding. That has caused a few rows recently. So she feels deprived even though I do go out to work.

Well thankyou Mrs Po-Faced Parimony!

I do agree and we had a little conversation yesterday that has made me realise that she does have an enlarged entitlement gland. Went swimming, they had a fruit juice from the machine on the way out. They also wanted fish and chips (which we do sometimes get on the way home). I said no, hadn't got any money with me, DD whined, I said no, whined some more. In the end she sulked and I walked on with DS#2 and eventually she followed me. But it was so absurd.

No she's not at a private school. That would be way out of our league - anyway I went to a private school and I'm not sure it did me too many favours. Plus DH wouldn't countenance it on principle.

I do sound a little like your mother .

Nope. Ignoring, walking away and changing the subject were mine. After that I was stuck

Oh right The boss and slave school of parenting. Am hoping to find a middle ground. There are many things I can be proud of her for - the way she behaves to me is only one area.

I didn't want to use her hurting me as any kind of lever on her. I want her to understand that she shouldn't behave that way. If your child said something unkind to someone, would you not tell her why it was wrong? She isn't responsible for my feelings, but she is responsible for the way she interracts with others.

Yes. I'm sure that's what it was. But not worth a row. I should have done what everyone on this thread has suggested and simply stopped the conversation early on. Need to practice that skill.

Hope this isn't too much of a digression Orm but reading this has got me thinking. It's an interesting question about parental authority ... I mean how much should we exercise it simply because we are who we are .. how much should parental authority be respected/earnt on merit .. and how does one find a balance?

Nowadays we are supposed to be "listening" parents and to be sensitive and try and understand situations from dc pov and that can inadvertently "put you in a perceived position of weakness" but on the other hand aren't those sort of techniques designed to nip challenging behaviour in the bud before it develops in to something worse thereby rendering "authoritative/controlling" parenting unnecessary... ???

Oh I dunno. DD only 4 but I'm going to struggle with this one later on I just know it.

Oh it's not a digression at all. It's a big issue in our family. DH and I both started out being liberal listening parents and largely it's worked. I stayed more or less the same but in the last few years the children have got older and more challenging DH has started to pull rank, demand instant obedience and say things like 'who do you think you are'. It literally sickens me That's what I mean by the boss and slave school of parenting. Yes, it's easy that way. You say jump and they say how high. But easy isn't always best. I accept that I haven't got the balance right especially with my DD atm, but once you stop listening and being prepared to be flexible I personally think you've lost the battle. It's not about treating your child as your friend, it's about treating your child as a human being, who can think and make their own decisions.

Parental authority doesn't have to be earned, that's what is so terrifying about it. Children are naturally inclined to do what they are told by their parents, but respect should be earned. And not by behaving like a drill sergeat IMO.

I agree with you OrmIrian. I think the classic boss/slave approach is easier in the short term; but treating your child as a human being, which involves listening, not necessarily agreeing, but accepting that they have rights too, has the payback in the longer term. The people I know who had parents who tended to have the boss/slave type parenting, are not generally close to their parents as adults. They don't necessarily have bad relationships, but they don't choose to spend time with their parents now. Their relationship with their parents tends to be very much a 'duty' one - getting on ok,but not really having the spark of a good relationship. I always try to remember that our children are not actually children for the major part of their lives. Most of their life will be spent as an adult. of course we need to guide them, and teach them how to behave positively, and provide experiences for them to enrich their lives, but we are also hopefully guiding them towards living independent lives. By the time they are 18 they are legally adults, able to make their own choices regardless of what we think or do. And I very much hope my children will choose to spend time with me and DH when they are adults.