I think I am in danger of being a toxic parent

[OrmIrian]

Not wishing to belittle the use of the word as I know many people use it here, but I can't think of any other way of putting it. I am a constant disappointment to my DD. I am so proud of her, anyone would be, she is intelligent, pretty, hard-working, popular and to everyone else she is kind and compassionate - just not to me. She is a perfectionist and I am not perfect. I am always too disorganised, I am never available for school trips or to help in class, she hates it that our lives are often a bit hectic. DH thinks I imagine it but he hasn't seen the way she looks at me sometimes. Our relationship has never been easy in the way it is with my sons.

We had an argument in the car on the way to her climbing club. She refused to talk to me when she got out and will probably still be sulking tonight. I cried on the way home I will apologise and she will grudgingly accept my apology but if I try to explain how she hurt me she will sulk some more.

I just know that in 9 years time she will out of the door so fast she'll leave scorch marks and never come home. I don't know what to do. I am like I am. I can't change to suit her. What can I do.

I don't have a daughter, so can't advise from a mother's POV on the mother daughter relationship, but from what you are saying I think you are being way to hard on yourself. Agree with batters that your dd could be picking up on the fact that you seem very critical of yourself.

I agree with Honoria she speaks much sense.

FGS, why on earth is it hard on her if her mum doesn't help out on school trips? No it's not, it's normal!!!! She feels hard done by because you feel you might be hard-doing her. You're not. She's not. You're normal so is she. As someone else said, she'll hone in on anything she senses you feel bad about and use it as a stick to beat you with. Wait till she's 14 and wants to stay out until 2AM on a school night and have a boyfriend of 25, she'll have spotting Mum's guilt down to a fine art by then...

you sound a little low on self esteem generally and I wonder whether she is using this against you - almost a mild form of bullying. The pefectionist thing she has going might also indicate this. Anything less than perfect is open to derision in her world.

I don't think she is too young to start talking to her about the bigger world, where people are not always perfect and are flawed but loveable, rounded people nonetheless. Characters in books might be a good place to start these discussions.

I think you perhaps need to be a bit more confident when dealing with her - stock phrases that come to mind when batting back tricky behaviour from my almost 10yo DD, 'Well like it or lump it, I'm the best mother you have and with a following wind the best one you will ever have!'; 'I wouldn't be doing my job right if I didn't embarrass you occasionally!'

I really would not apologise for tonight - I would just quietly say 'I did not like the way you treated me this evening - it was hurtful and I cannot understand why you wish to hurt me!' best said at bedtime as you depart her room and leave her to think things over!

Perveresly I think setting and maintaining consistent boundaries around how she treats you might actually be what she needs, rather than going all wishy, washy around her

I think most local colleges run the odd day long assertiveness training courses - would that be something you would consider?

Hi Orm, you sound like a lovely parent to care to this extent. You are doing your level best for your dd.

My dd is too young, but I speak as a daughter of a mother who gave in to me a lot, when what I needed was to be put in my place. Yes, when I sense weakness, I can go for the jugular because I was looking for that boundary.

My karma has come to bite me on the arse because dd has that personality as well.

Some gentle bolsiness and humour on your part is probably all you need. And like soapbox says, you are the best parent your dd will ever have - you have to tell her that and believe it as well. ok?

Was about to boast what FairyMum has said. Is she not the Toxic Child here? (I am not being serious, please don't take offence) You sound very aware of what you perceive to be failings; I don't think a TP would be. I have an 11-year old daughter. They will dislike nearly everything you do, in my experience.

boast? I meant post!

Lots of wise posts here. Honoria's particularly stands out in my mind. I think the one thing we can't expect our children to do is validate our choices or make us feel good about ourselves. On the other hand, you can tell her to shut up if she's being rude.

But you need to find experienced adults (us!!!) to tell you that in balancing 3 dc's and a job you are doing pretty damn well.

And all those expecting-to-help-out-at- the-school-things were devised for a time when mothers did not work. Dads don't feel inferior because they can't give x no of hours to the school every week.

You sound insightful, reflective and a lovely Mum! Your dd is "testing her attachments" to use a jargonistic term.

She's doing it because she's secure, kids can't often do this with anayone else apart from their Mums. She has more awareness herself now of hom her actions effect others and but is still largely egocentric.

As others have said don't be so hard on yourself, carry on taking her to her activities but don't feel pressured to become a pta Mum some of us don't have the time or the inclination for all of that.

I agree with most of the posts here Ormiron - you are being too hard on yourself - and perhaps expecting too much understanding/ empathy from your daughter.

It sounds like like your daughter has a very loving family and an active life - nothing to really complain about. However adolescent hormones are kicking in I remember how much I resented my Mum for breathing sometimes and idolised my Father Sometimes it just the way personalities and genders work/ interact. I have learnt to appreciate my mum fully only now I am a parent myself. I fully expect my daughter to have ishoos with me when she is growing up and that my son will probably fight with his Dad - we will do our best not to take it personally and deal with unacceptable behavior as appropriate. Although probably I will be writing a post similar to yours in 10 years time!

Thanks for all your messages and support. It really helps to get things written down and get some perspective. It felt so bad yesterday.

It went well Batters. I didn't apologise. In fact it wasn't mentioned again. She was happy and relaxed. When she went to bed I stayed with her for about 15 mins - not reading - just talking and chatting.

I know that I need to be more assertive with her. I am with the boys - inspite of the fact I have no real experience of boys at all (girls' school, older DB away at boarding school) I find them so much easier. If they act like twts I tell them to stop it in no uncertain terms. They are much more obviously loving but will show negative feelings more clearly too. DD doesn't respond well to the same sort of direct behaviour and she tends to niggle and sulk rather than express her anger. In the past I've tried doing girly stuff but it's so foreign to my nature I'm like a polar bear juggling And, possibly due to me, she hates it too. So I am going to find some time for just her, doing something that we both want to do without* her little bro who always seems to tag along. And some more direct conversations along the lines of 'this is who I am, live with it'!

Hi, haven't read all the posts but my feeling is that right now and for the next few years she is just too young to be able to understand and accept that you are the way you are (ie disorganised etc...I'm am too btw) but once she is older, this is something she will come to accept about you and understand. She will recognise that you love her and ultimately that is all that matters. Not all children are lucky enough to have kind,caring, loving parents like you (I was one of these children ) and if I could have my childhood again all I would ask for is that my parents loved me, not that they were more organised, did more in school etc etc.

thanks oneplusone.

pointydog - the argument in the car was just plain stupid. I want to write it down to show myself how stupid it is. I couldn't remember something that we saw on television the other day. She insisted that I must remember it. I said I couldn't. She got more insistent. I made a joke of it"mum's a bit forgetful these days DD. Comes of being sooo old". She then starts on about Mrs F (supply teacher) being really really old and she never forgot things.
"Perhaps Mrs F doesn't have a family and a house to look after" etc.
"Yes she does. She has a family and everything".
"But I expect they've grown up and left home".
"But that wasn't what you said...you said she didn't have a home and a family and she does... and she doesn't forget stuff.."

etc etc round in circles.

And in the end I shouted at her.

Now that sounds really pathetic I know. But she will never leave things be. She has to get a reaction. I need to learn not to give her one.

Yes as always with our interactions with other people it's about the dynamics of the TWO of you, not just one. As you say, you give her a good reaction! And you definitely try to justify yourself too much.

After all, you BOTH couldn't remember it! Try and deflect things back to her - as in rather than "Oh mummy's a bit forgetful" you could say "oh what are we like, we'd forget our own heads etc etc"

offering excuses for yourself like being busy etc is just handing her a big stick to beat you with! Take that stick away! Start telling her how lucky she is and what a fantastic mother you are

Orm, from that car conversation, it sounds like your dd is being oppositional, or trying to prove something, or just make you feel bad about yourself.

What would happen if you just said: "Oh, I cannot remember, can you?" Would she sulk or press on. And if she pressed on, what would happen if you just said sharply: "end of conversation".

Somehow, I think that if you just drew a line under that conversation, she would respect you more for it. I think she wants to respect you but is going about it in the most counterproductive and self-destructive way.

I suspect you're actually a lovely mother, Ormirian.

As ever, Honoria puts her finger right on the spot. She was being as forgetful as you- and you tried to justify yourself! Get out of that habit now!

Now she didn't forget. She was trying to get me to share a memory that she had and apparently I should have. But I suspect I watched the programme for 2 mins in between doing something else and didn't concentrate.

However...tis all irelevant. I am starting from scratch and not taking no sht . I need to remember the golden phrase 'good-enough parenting'. I do what I can. DH is always telling me not to apologise to the DCs and not to always explain everything - that goes counter to everything I've ever tried to do with other people. But I guess my DCs are not* like just other people.

I suppose 'end of conversation' was what I did when I resorted to shouting. But not quite such a good full-stop. Need to stop things before I get wound up.

that argument sounds annoying, orm, but fairly par for the course. Maybe just saying calmly but seriously, 'stop nagging, I just can't remember it' rather than making yourself out to be a bit of a forgetful twit. A 9 year old should realise that nagging is not an attractive trait.

You should def try the 'this is who I am live with it' attitude a bit more

Orm, "I suppose 'end of conversation' was what I did when I resorted to shouting." - I have been there, oh yes. You are not alone in needing to learn to walk away from a windup merchant.

LOL I usually just start shouting Shut UP shut UP, I BEG you shut UP!

Mature, aren't I?

I think the one being hard on you is...

you.

And your daughter is taking your cue.

You must feel quite guilty to call yourslef a TP. You are not, you just need more confidence.

It sounds to me as if you try too hard to please (and are too apologetic).

Be nicer to yourslef, and emand that your DD respect you

lol, littlebella. Hope that got you the final word . Totally sympathise. Now poor Orm has to navigate the narrow gangplank between being a lamb and a screaming harridan. I tend to veer too far to the right as well.