Introducing fact that uncle is gay to 7 year old dd

[bayleaf]

Was intending to leave this till it occured 'naturally' - but is being forced slightly by fact that my brother is having a CP in 2 weeks' time and altho' it is a mini, no guests affair ( he has been with dp for about 15 years) he is coming down to where we live with DP subsequently for the day to take us and dad out to lunch...
Some background info;-
My brother ( DB???) has been 'out' since he was 18 and I was 20 - we get on incredibly well and always have done and him being gay is absolutely not an issue at all and never has been - also has v good relations with dad ( mum dead). Db comes down ( he lives 100 miles away in Manchester) regularly to visit and our 2 dds ( 2 and 7) dote on him, however his partner never comes with him, not because he wouldn't be welcome, I guess it would just be a bit tedious for him in a way that visiting in-laws often is - but in 'straight' situations there are 'protocols' and you can't often get out of visiting without it looking odd...

So DD loves her uncle dearly - has noted that he is not married but does not make a big deal of it ( she is an 'innocent 7 year old, not at all worldly). We have the Babette Cole book 'Mummy never told me' which has same sex partners embracing and I've briefly described gay relationships and she was accepting ( overheard her subsequently telling a 4 year old boy who was saying that 2 boy teddy bears couldn't kiss that they could 'cos sometimes boys can fall in love with each other')
In one way I'd rather wait till she is just slightly older to bring it up ( I like the idea of children as children and slightly resent any 'teenagification' of her - I accept the minimum amount of pop/trendy clothes so that she is not left out - but certainly don't encourage her to be older than she is.) But at the same time I don't have any 'problem' with telling her that her uncle is gay - except in so far as it gets us into sexual territory earlier than I'd prefer.
I think my question is really, should we be upfront and explain who db's partner really is and explain about the CP - OR just let db arrive with his partner, not specifically mention the CP - and see if she picks up on the 'special friendship' ( they're not touchy feely in public - and not at all ''obviously gay' - and if she does, play it by ear....???
I know that db will be happy to play it however we feel best.
Any thoughts or experiences anyone???

Cor that was quick!
Thanks all ...
Yes I have no worries at all about her 'accepting it' - she clearly has taken it sort of on board from the Babette Cole illustration and brief discussion.
We're not invited to the CP ( I've already 'complained' about that but DB tells me the main reason they are doing it is just in case one of them dies( and his partner's family is a nightmare) and the inheritance thing would be awful- and they don't want a big 'do' - litterally just witnesses, thus the family meal afterwards)

Yes you are all right about me making it into more than it is (IYSWIM) - I was just saying to DH after having posted that the thing to do is probably just to give exactly as much info as is asked for and let DD lead it, it is an odd situation in so far as the partner has been 'around' for 15 years - but DD has never met or really even heard of him, he doesn't feature in DB's conversations with her, so it just has never come up. If he'd been around it would have developed naturally over time and would never have been an issue as it would always have been there. Now it feels a bit like going from 0-60 on the 'added information' front and a bit wierd that the partner has been there all this time and never been mentioned, or at least he is mentioned, but dd has never picked up on his significance.

two of my childrens uncles ie two of their dad's brothers are gay..they dindt come out unitl i already had children but dont think it was ever a big issue...though it was before civil partnership

in fact i cant really remeber how they were told...so i would agree just to say they are making promises to each other and its a lovely celebration and see what questions she asks

i dont think being seven is that important..you wont be describing anything graphic lol

I agree (as ever!) with F&Z. My 7 YO nephew's uncle lives with his partner and has done for years and years. He is very accepting of the fact that Uncle X has a boyfriend, not a girlfriend and he's fine about it. He goes to stay with them and doesn't think it's at all odd - he just accepts it.

sometimes that does happen though, a beloved relative acquires a spouse without much warning. so just because you know he's been around forever doesn't mean much. occasion for joy and party hooray.

Crumbs, I can't keep up - there were 15 posts when I started my second post, now there are 28! I'm out of practice, I've not Mumsnetted properly for ages, it wasn't a quick as this in the olden days!!

I think I'll say that 'Db's partner G ( see if she asks who he is and if so explain that DB has lived with him for a long time)is coming down with him this time because they've decided that they want to be together forever, like Mummy and Daddy getting married, but when people are partners and the same sex it's called a CP,
So they've decided to come and have a big meal with us to celebrate.' And see what she says...And take it from there!

dd's godfather is gay.

Ditto to MI

Just dont say anything, and when/if she asks anything about who his partner is, just tell her that, its his partner, and answer further questions if/when they come up after this. Truthfully in the same way you would discuss other questions relating to sex/love/relationships.

Dhs aunts were lesbian, he always knew but does not recall ever being told. They just were together, in the same way as his aunt and uncle were together.

DD's friend wanted to marry her, but dd told her she couldn't because she was a girl. I told dd that actually if women, when they're grown up, want to marry each other they can now.
I went a bit far on the explaining though. Explained that women can marry in what is known as a civil partnership ceremony.
DD said that she wants to marry a boy though. BEcause she doesn't want to get married on a ship, and because churches have pretty glass windows.
It did make me laugh, as it demonstrated yet again that I sometimes go off on a tangent and over explain. She's 4 by the way.
Anyway - several very close family friends are gay, and I don't remember ever being told. I jsut knew, was accepting in the way that children are. Never bothered me in the slightest, and was never introduced along the lines of "X and X shag each other". More "this is X's boyfriend".

Ds1 (also 7) and dd are very accepting of their uncle's relationship and we have never had to spell it out, but then he sees BIL and his partner together fairly regularly and we have been away for weekends with them when obv they have had their own room. Dh and his other brothers tease them about a CP on a regular basis so ds1 has heard those convos too. What does worry me a bit though, is dealing with any of the tedious playground "God, that's so gay" talk that might come our way in the future. Has anyone encountered this or dealt with it?

Bayleaf - do you remember me from the old BabyCentre Jan 01 board?

MAny of these posts have renewed my faith in human nature.
DP and I oten agonise about the effect our being two women will have on dd and how she will be viewed/accepted/marginalised by her peers.She soesn't have "two Mummies"-she has a Mummy and a ***-and being 3yrs old she is happy with that.
Having grown up in a homophobic environment has only made matters worse and maybe my fears are greater than they should be.
I guess what Iam trying to say is the earlier cildren are taught that it is"OK" for two women or two men to love each other as it is for a man and a woman to love each other,the better.

I long for the day when people won't judge,raise eyebrows or expect me to wear dungarees!

I agree with the majority vote; she seems well prepared already. Don't quite understand the posters who say it will make her grow up too quickly. Does that mean you wouldn't tell your child about a hetero couple marrying either? Surely that is neither more nor less about sex? Or do you feel that there is something inherently more sexualised in a gay partnership? And that a child would feel this?

We have introduced the concept of gayness into our household through the Barrowman.

Yes, Cory. I was thinking, do people skirt around Cinderella and Prince Charming getting married because it is 'too sexual'?

Agree a simple explanation now about Uncle X and Uncle Y loving each other is best.

Better than waiting until your dd is a teenager who finally notices something and asks, and responding 'Why don't you ask them?' as my mother did! I was soooo embarrassed... the idea that grown-ups who are known to you have sex at all, ever, is hideous to contemplate when you are 13, the last thing you want to do is ask them about it!

However, it did answer my question in a back-handed manner...

Yes, indeed UQD, DD1 was disgusted when she saw JB kissing girls on the Maria show. She knew it was wrong.

Seriously, to the OP, we are friends with several gay couples and my children view them in exactly the same way as the straight couples we know - it really won't be an issue for your DD I am sure.

I agree with the majority of posters that this needn't be an issue and should be based on two people loving each other rather than the sexual element. Although there are no gay relations within my immediate family my closest friend and god parent of my children)'s sister is gay and the infant school to which my eldest did go to had 3 lesbian couples in her year. Although I didn't specifically raise the issue marriage was always discussed as being between two people who loved each other rather than between a man and a woman. Indeed the other day dd2 announced that only a man and a woman could get married (she's 4) and was corrected by my 8 year old that two women could also get married as well. They then discussed two men getting married and having not come across this agreed that this was not possible so I stepped in and explained that as long as they loved each other it was indeed possible. To which the four year old announced that in that case she was going to marry my car because she new mummy's car loved her because she always felt safe in it. Needless to say I didn't really know what the heck to add to this part of the conversation and my 8 year old was disgusted that I wouldn't support her in telling the 4 year old she was being stupid. .

In the end its about love and not about sex and at their age they understand love and most (shame its not all) don't understand sex. I suspect she'll accept them marrying far easier than you expect.

People marry out of love, not because they want to have sex. Why bring up the sex element at all? Beside the point totally to talk to a 7 year old about sex. You wouldnt if you were bringing him to a man and woman wedding?

I would explain to her about it in terms of love (like many have said)

The overwhelming example children have is of male/female relationships, and as someone said - she may be confused - waiting for the bride to show up

My dd's uncle is gay too but she has always 'known' if you know what I mean. I just said that when you grow up you can marry someone you like and and I chose daddy and then listed other couples including them.

Snap Unquiet Dad.

Captain Jack is the shining beacon of gayness in our house too.
Sure he would be thrilled.

HI all again ( and yes Wilbur I rememebr you, of course I do - seems a long time ago now! !)

Reading this I wish that it had become a complete non issue from the beginning by 'being there' from when she was very small. The reason it hasn't been is actually a 2 part reason - one bit I've pointed out - we never see the partner ( only cos DB chooses not to bring him/he chooses not to come, he'd be very welcome!)so there has never been a reason to refer to him but ALSO.....

I referred to it being a long term relationship - it is, actually 17 or 18 years and to start with it was a big romantic thing ( weren't all of ours!) but slightly complicated by the fact that db's friends ( gay) never liked the partner, thought he was boring - but it was fine for a while - then they split up completely for a good while. Then out of the blue they got back together - and in the last 5-10 years ( can't remember exactly) they are together and live together ( tho not in joint house, DP owns it) BUT sleep in separate rooms, don't have a sexual relationship any more ( bit like a lot of hetro relationships then )but both have affairs openly with other people - inc when on holiday both having holiday flings and the photo line ups on snaps go ''db, dp, db's fling, dp's fling' - all happily sat together! And Db had more or less said in as many words that altho they were best friends, the relationship was just friends now and would carry on until one of them met someone that blew it out of the water... So most of the time when DB was here was spent with me catchng up with his latest flame/exploits and specifically keeping the conversation away from DD ( and from my dad for that matter!) as it was so complicated!!
So when DB said he was having a CP I was surprised - but DB explained that really after all this time they both thought that altho their relationship is actually more of a friendship than a love affair - it is so strong that it is unlikely that anyone WILL blow it apart, especailly given that they both have the freedom to sleep with who they want/have relationships as they want.... PHEW - I said it was complicated!

Now I'm sure it would be possible to refer to all this to DD in a way that made it seem 'normal' and she'd accept it - but it just felt too complicated in my head- and I was sort of waiting for a 'new big romantic/falling in love' type relationship with somebody we actually saw to bring it up! Instead the CP has brought it up ( which as I said before is at least partly motivated by the fact that the partner's mother died recently and his family was a nightmare fighting over a straightforward situation - heaven only knows how they'd react to DP leaving all to DB...)

But thanks to all your comments I do feel more confident about talking about it - clearly I never was going to bring up anything sexual - but in my head it felt slightly complicated and 'adult' ( because of all the above!), now I can see it isn't, or doesn't need to be to DD.

Incidentally I am a secondary teacher and often get the 'that's so GAY comment' - or at least it is often heard around school, but not in my room. As I teach in a heavily asian school it's easy to turn round and say 'would you want me to shout ''that's so Paki!'' with the implicit meaning that it was cr@p???? NO - you'd be deeply offended and expect me to be punished ( and I/they would be!) well it is just the same using someone's ethnicity as an insult as it is using their sexuality as an insult - SO DON'T DO IT IN MY CLASSROOM.'
And they dont! If anyone almost does by accident, other kids always hiss quickly to be quiet...

Well, strictly speaking it's Barrowman the actor who is gay, and Captain Jack who is - what? bisexual ? Omnisexual ? No, he's try-sexual - as in, he'll try anything once.

I won't bet against him hitting on both Sarah-Jane Smith and Davros in the series finale...

That's a good retort re the playground "gay" insult, bayleaf, will file it away for future use. You never know, with any luck it might not be needed.

I also see your point about your brother's relationship being more complicated than many other CPs. It is easier for us as BIL's DP is around a lot (and is a lot better with the kids that BIL is, arf!) so we never had to introduce him, as it were, to the dcs. I would still just stick to the bare minimum, that Uncle is getting married to another man, which is fine and normal, and that you're looking forward to getting to know new uncle a bit better in the future, isn't it lovely that the family's expanding, etc etc.

The complications are more your problem than hers though, bayleaf; she doesn't have to analyse their relationship, so I am sure it is fine just to take it at face value as far as she is concerned. In my family, one of the hetero relationships was probably more of an amicable arrangement than a big love affair but tbh I have never felt the need to go into this with my dc's. None of their business, really; frankly, I'm not even sure it's any of mine

Oh totally agree Cory - the point I was making above is not that it had anything to do with me - or that I had any intention of introducing DD to it - but that as it had seemed like a relationship on its last legs for the last 5 years or so, and we never saw the partner, it was easier not to mention him than to explain that he existed, but we never saw him - and he might not exist for much longer...

Now they've clearly sorted out something that is right for them ( I too have hetro friends with relationships that seemed a bit like that from day 1 - never mind 18 years down the line...And they have lasted the course)so it's the right time to introduce it to DD - but certainly without any hint that it is any more complicated than 'db loves X and they are going to be together forever now like mummy and daddy'