4yo’s extreme behaviour – desperate for advice

[MilesJonesy]

My 4-year-old (well he turns 4 on Wednesday) son has always been a bit fiery, but since starting the new nursery term things have spiralled out of control. Last year he would occasionally hit out, but nothing like what’s happening now.

In the past few weeks he has:

• Flipped tables and turned the whole nursery room upside down (two or three times).
• Spat on toys and thrown food.
• Tried to hit staff, and last week scratched a teacher’s arm so hard it drew blood.
• Refused to let others share resources (like all the Play-Doh pots) and gone into full meltdown if asked to.

At home, it’s not much better. He’s wrecked his room in anger, smashed a glass candle jar, peed himself in protest during time out, poured water over his brother in the car, and regularly hits/spits at his sibling. He sometimes escalates so much I can’t leave him unattended even for a few minutes while cooking.

We’ve tried every sanction I can think of: time outs, no screen time, early bed, confiscating toys, putting him in his room, even withdrawing attention/not playing with him. He doesn’t seem to care about any of it – he just shrugs it off and carries on. Sometimes sanctions even backfire (e.g. peeing himself in protest or trashing things).

What makes it harder is that he can also be completely fine – affectionate, able to sit through long stories, build Lego, go for walks, or cuddle up quietly. And just this week he had two completely fine days at nursery where nothing bad happened at all. So I’m baffled as to how he can switch from that to such extreme behaviour.

We constantly reinforce “soft hands” and “kind words” at home. Nursery have been supportive – they’ve made referrals for speech and language and for a possible neurodevelopmental assessment, but the waiting list is about two years (Scotland). I’ve started looking into private options because I feel I can’t cope waiting that long.

Emotionally, I feel like I’m at breaking point. I’m stressed, anxious, and sometimes feel totally alone dealing with this. I have another child too, and it’s horrible watching him bear the brunt of the hitting/spitting.

Has anyone else had a child whose behaviour escalated like this around age 4? Does this sound like ADHD/autism/PDA, or something else? And what practical strategies actually made a difference in keeping everyone safe day-to-day?

Any advice or reassurance would mean the world right now. My eldest is 6.5 and has no problems whatsover at home or school except the odd bit of being silly or cheeky.

This is good advice

My friends son was like this - he has ODD Opposition Defiance Disorder. He was a flipping nightmare, only better once home schooled and has left school

You mentioned earlier that your son had a slight speech delay. Has his hearing been checked? Only wondering if he is struggling to hear which is all adding to his frustration?

Ignore all the people telling you you’re a shit parent 🙄.

Sounds like my son, adhd. His behaviour could be seen as different from peers age 18 months plus though. Could yoh see this behaviour when he was younger or only when starting nursery?

he may be overwhelmed by the setting, perhaps autistic. Might be worth considering removing from nursery, and finding a caregiving setting that is smaller and calmer like an at home childminder.

not sure how it works in Scotland but in England you can go to your gp with concerns to start the assessment ball rolling. Or pay privately yourself, around £2k.

I mean he would hit occasionally at nursery sometimes. He was very hard to potty train. Hit his brother a lot from about the age of 2. Would do wild things like try to run into the swimming pool when we were taking his older brother swimming. And if I picked him up to move him (this is age 17 months) he would scratch my neck until he drew blood. But then things seemed to be getting a bit easier last year when he was 3.

It might be worth researching "right to choose" and finding out if this is available in Scotland. We used it to get my middle child assessed for ASD and ADHD privately but with the NHS footing the bill.

In the nicest way possible: being a teacher in mainstream does not prepare to manage the behaviour of ND children. I say that as a teacher who has worked in mainstream and now works in specialist education. I also have one child with ASD and ADHD.

How long do you think your child would last in mainstream at present? It sounds like that without significant support it's unlikely to be a setting which will work for them.

Don't write off the importance of consistency. Even if it doesn't seem to have an impact; your child knowing what to expect will help them regulate.

Asking why has never worked with dc2.
Nor has talking about the ‘monster/anger inside him’ etc….

At best when I asked how he felt (eg after hitting dc1), he said ‘sad’. That was it. I never got more info. He was just totally overwhelmed and finding the ‘why’ was too much/too complicated/not that obvious

I’d have tanned his backside long ago, to be perfectly honest, around the first time he dared to spit at me

physical chastisement

wtf did I just read

I see my kids cogs turning when I give them the warning look

Yea probably because you beat them to a pulp since they were born. Wtaf

@User0ne yep, agree about the Right to Choose pathway.
You can get a private assessment quickly that way.
Only working in England as far as I know (I’m not sure where you are)

I would second saying don’t use to many words or detailed explanations goes against all training but it does help. Too many words can be sensory overload. Sometimes just a simple stop. Using gesture as well. Makaton maybe of help as well. It might be us help to just say use your words.

There are just no words.

How to make a dysregulated child even more dysregulated.

Read the explosive Child. It really helped with my then undiagnosed dd.

When in meltdown he doesn’t know what’s happening and can’t pay attention. This is why sanctions don’t work. He’s not melting down to be naughty but because he is anxious and overwhelmed. Sanction dangerous behaviour only. Why would you punish someone for being anxious?

Focus really hard on the good. Lots of reward charts and little rewards. Let him suggest his rewards. Just things like an extra story or cuddle.

Minimise noise, tension and loud voices as much as possible. Don’t give lots of instructions it will overwhelm him.

Dont fight everything. It makes your life and his not worth living. Most of his behaviour is dysregulation. Pick your battles.

I have 2 ADHD dc. Life was generally easier outdoors. We went out as much as possibke

We didn't have the terrible twos or threes, we had the fucking fours.
Dd just flipped and became a different child. She could almost contain herself at school but we would dread her coming home. She would break things, scream and shout. There was absolute defiance.
Her room was packed into bin bags 3 times and slung in the shed. She wasnt bothered. At Christmas I unplugged the tree took it upstairs and slung it in the spare room. Not a flicker from her.
Her memorable one was slamming the laptop shut on my fingers then launching it across the room.
This only lasted a year. I think she was completely overwhelmed with school and noise and too many other people. I always suspected she was ND and now at 18 still suspect ADD.
In the odd quiet moment she just couldn't explain what the problem was- I sensed it was too big for her to explain.

When did it start? My son was similar and I really think it’s the nursery which made him worse.

My 3 year old went through a year of awful behaviour which included hitting me several times a day.

It turned out that he had a big wax problem in his ears, thick stuff that i had to find someone private to suction out. It made a huge improvement to his behaviour and speech.

Get his hearing checked asap, start by getting someone to just look in his ears.

Possibly neourdivergent? Reminds me of my AuDHD son. Regardless, it might be useful trying PDA strategies as these can be effective either way. I follow people on Instagram and like https://www.instagram.com/atpeaceparents?igsh=MW5jNXo5d203Zjhmcw==

And

https://www.instagram.com/_kristyforbes?igsh=bmZoZW8xbmJyMXM3

If these aren't for you then look for parenting coaches and methods that appeal to you.
I also like

24/7 Parenting Support | Good Inside - Good Inside https://share.google/zycvwAeEglbQUP0ew
Even the book was helpful.

The Explosive Child https://share.google/72yrg7M72C215i1G4
Is a classic in this field and Ross Greene offers lots of resources on his website.

Also I would begin applying for EHCP now as he clearly needs additional support. You can make this application yourself and doesn't require a diagnosis.

The OP is in Scotland no Right to Choose there

We found reward charts made DS3 worse. Underneath his loud exterior, he's actually incredibly anxious and reward charts really ramped that up.

When he's medicated for his ADHD, his autistic behaviours become a lot more noticeable. He's also incredibly strategic; I always feel he's a step ahead. On the flip side he's pretty unbeatable at chess.

We're in a good place now but he's not in school anymore. His tutors haven't seen any of the behaviours that were non-stop at his last (independent special) school.

My ds was like this. It was almost always related to hunger. He was just hangry! He still gets like it now at 6 if I don't feed him up well! He's a skinny child so I think he burns through it all.

I get it. My firstborn was/is extremely difficult. Less destructive than yours at that age but just didn't listen. ASD. We got an appointment within 3 months and he got to see a speech therapist, a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

Don't listen to those who say you just have to be tougher blabla. You know that what works with neurotypical children (like your older dc and my younger son for ex) won't work for him. The rules do not apply to these kids. You constantly have to find what works and go with that until it doesn't anymore. And then try something else. It's relentless.

One thing I have learnt: try to minimise his outbursts. They are not good for him nor for the family. Pick your fights. Some rules are golden but try to be flexible. I had to pin down my son in order to brush his teeth until he was 6 y old (gently and telling him softly that we have to clean your teeth). When he was 8 and I asked him if he remembered he said thank you for doing it, I didn't understand that it was important. Some things will get easier while other harder.

You do need help to cope with him. Try to go private if you can. It's an outrage that you have to wait 2 years!!!

Try to stay calm. Grey rock. It's hard but he's in such a turmoil that he really needs you to be the lighthouse his emotional waves can thrust upon (I read that somewhere and liked the metaphor). I wish you all the best.💐

Thank you to every single person who has reacted with compassion, empathy and understanding. For everyone who has shared their stories of children with similar reactions. I've felt unbearably alone and ashamed dealing with this and it means the world. Money is very tight for us but we're going to take our youngest to a private speech and language clinic that also specialises in ASD. We're also getting an eye test and hearing exam sorted ASAP. He really can be such a loving and sweet boy, he will be affectionate and warm with his teachers and us. We just need to find ways to deal with the switch, where he just seems to flip to being out of control. And how to reduce the distress for everyone. Once again thank you for all the kind words and my heart goes out to anyone who is suffering similar difficulties.

No I actually agree. I read the whole post and it sounds like there are a lot of consequences but my question would be how firm you are being.

Your child needs to understand from your very firm and angry tone that his behaviour isn’t acceptable.

This does sound very similar to my autistic son when he was 3/4. He would also wreck rooms etc. He did have other traits of ASD though, I’ve not read through all your replies so don’t know whether your DS does?

But I can sympathise greatly! Even a lot of these relies just don’t get it- it doesn’t matter how firm you are, how clear and consistent you are with boundaries and consequences, how much effort and attention and strategies you put into effect, for some children it just doesn’t work! I also have an older DC who I could parent effectively and who has always been well-behaved with beautiful manners so I knew it couldn’t entirely be on my capability as a mum. But yeah, it’s still pretty shit to be judged when you’re already at your wits end.

The good news is my DS is now 9 and, although he still has his challenges, we are a world away from how life was five or so years ago. A lot improved as his speech and understanding developed better. There’s certainly no trashing rooms or daily biting and hitting. Family life is a lot less stressful and he has come on in leaps and bounds.

DS3 also had a long spitting phase. I remember DH saying to him "if you spit again we're not going to Nanny's" (he adored MIL). So DS3 pissed on the carpet! He was about 4.

He actually didn't present wirh challenging behaviour at nursery and at school he got through reception without incident. Yr1 (he was 6ish) was just a hideous incident after incident and that continued. It was such an isolating time and although my other DC are autistic, they'd never had challenging behaviour. I know there's a belief that "naughty" children get all the support and help but that wasn't the case for us. Online help was invaluable both MN SN Chat and various FB groups

I really hope you can get some meaningful support.

It might be worth looking into omega 3 supplements. Might not make any difference but might be worth a try!

No offence, but your priorities are all wrong OP.

1. keep the 6.5 year old safe. That’s not your choice, it’s the law.
2. Boundaries, not diagnoses, will fix this.
3. make DC2s room safe and leave him in it while you have quality time with DC1.
4. Zero tolerance of harm to others.