Nursery not taking 3 year old to the toilet

[Sarahannn]

I feel like I’m banging my head off a wall with my daughter’s nursery. She’s a nightmare at not going to the toilet and at home needs asked to go every time. I don’t know why it’s never clicked but she will wet herself or leave it too late to say she needs it so constantly needs asked. Shes been ‘potty trained’ for a long time but we just don’t seem to get beyond this. She’s been at nursery for 6 months and I made them aware of this from the first day. She must have came home wet about 40/50 times since she started. It’s more than half the week I’d say. She was on reduced hours last year but has moved up to longer hours in the older room since last week. One member of staff seems to be really helpful and makes sure she goes - no accidents if she’s there but she isn’t always there. This week she’s came home wet both days so far, on Monday she was smelling of pee and most of it had dried so must have been wet from the morning and said she hadn’t been to the toilet all day. It’s fully her issue for not saying she’s wet or asking to go but I’m just so conscious if they keep letting this go we’re going to end up having this problem when she starts school 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’ve spoken to the head of centre and sent emails, spoken to staff so many times but they seem to say what they want you to hear then do nothing about it the next day. What else can I do other than keep phoning every week?

From their point of view it makes sense but in my daughter’s case it would feel like a total backwards step to go back to nappies at her age and would kind of send the wrong message. I’ve tried threatening nappies at home if she won’t tell me she needs it but have never gone for it 🤦🏻‍♀️ at this point it could be worth a try 😂

I cannot agree with posters who think this is not the nursery's job.

Personal care is a core part of being an early years worker. Of course they should be assisting your child with toilet training. If they don't want to do this, they are in the wrong job.

I am in Wales where many children start school at 3 in the nursery class. There are teachers and teaching assistants who will let children be covered in shit and shit themselves rather than help them with the toilet as they say it is 'not their job'. Absolutely disgusting. If they don't want to help early years kids with toileting then they should stop having early years in schools. Let people who know personal care in part of their job do Early Years work instead.

I’d guess they’re turning a blind eye and can’t be bothered changing them 🤦🏻‍♀️ The issue seems to be no one is directly in charge of any child, it’s kind of everyone’s responsibility so they can all pretend they haven’t noticed, except from the one lady who seems to be amazing and gets it

Is it worth trying to get her into the habit of going with other cues?

for example, at home get her into the habit of going before she puts her shoes on to go outside, the putting her shoes on is the cue rather than her having the feeling of needing to go…. that might then translate to nursery if they have outdoor playtimes.

similarly going before she sits down to eat.

basically habit stacking but in a simple way…… I’ve no idea whether that would work but might be worth a try?

I would agree. I’m not doubting in any way that it must be the hardest job ever and I absolutely hate having to say and always say in the nicest possible way without blaming anyone. It’s especially hard when they have kids like my daughter making your life harder but it must happen a lot. It’s not like I’m asking them to run and back and forwards to the toilet with her. If they literally just had one person responsible who either had a chart or something or set an alarm twice a day to find her and tell her to go. I’m getting in a flap about it now because I feel like the countdown to school is on and I can’t face this going on all year and then obviously this will continue at school if nothing changes

I’ve literally done it all, and I mean it ALL 😭 It sounds like a good idea but it’s like in her mind she just does not want to go no matter what and will avoid going at all costs. Tried making the toilet such a positive thing with toys and bubbles, tried rewards, sticker charts, buying toys, giving chocolate buttons. Eventually something will click, she’s unlikely to be 25 and still doing it but at this rate it feels like it never will 😩

Coming home actually wet or in clothes that have been wet and dried is utterly unacceptable. Regardless of anything else if a child has an accident they should be helped to get cleaned up afterwards. Allowing a 3 year old to sit in wet pants and trousers is awful. It puts her at risk of skin breakdown and urine burns (as a nurse I’ve seen this in elderly patients, it’s completely horrific and so painful!) I would ask for a meeting with the manager. Discuss ways that yous can work together to sort this. Suggest intervals that they can remind her to go to the toilet. How are you doing it at home? Is it every hour etc? I would try and work it into your routine so that she starts to build independence with it herself so she knows that before she goes to play in the garden she does for a week, before lunch she goes for a wee, etc and remind her she should do this at nursery. But make it absolutely clear that you won’t tolerate her coming home wet and if she has ac accident she MUST he helped to get cleaned promptly.

How on earth is that going to help? If a child is in childcare, there needs to be reinforcement during the day or they'll never get there with potty training. Young kids get really engrossed in their activities - a nappy is going to hinder the process of recognising urges.

Our nursery take the children at set times to the loo and will remind them. There is no way a child would be left wet - how is that even possible not to notice?! Being sent home wet or with dried urine is utterly negligent. Not ok at all.

Nursery sounds awful honestly. No child should be routinely coming home in wet clothes or smelling of urine. And yes they absolutely should be prompting children of this age to go to the toilet. Not every child needs the same area of care in every area. Maybe two kids out of eight need more reminders about toileting than the others; another two kids need to be watched more closely around certain things than others, etc. Children are individuals and care workers adapt to work with the children they have. No they can’t ask eight children individually every 10 mins if they need the toilet, but they can ask one or two children a bit more frequently than the others when those children need the support.

Our nursery have been incredibly supportive of toilet training with both my kids.

I will add that nurseries refusing to deal with accidents/insisting on nappies must be raised when you get the flood of newspaper reports (any day now) talking about lazy parents (aka mothers) who have sent reception children to school in nappies. If nurseries are refusing to allow the natural learning process of children, undermining efforts of parents, how the hell can children be properly prepared for school without a parent leaving their job/career? And if this is the expectation, what is the point of nurseries (especially ones attached to schools, who seem to have these rules)?

I am so grateful for our amazing nursery.

Definitely put her in pale coloured leggings so it’ll be obvious when she has an accident. Also, what about a potty watch that will remind her to go without needing an adult to prompt? Even if she is inclined to ignore it there’s a noise so it’ll also prompt the staff to act on it.

Honestly OP this isn't a you problem this is a nursery problem. They sound completely content to neglect multiple children and ignore the basics so unfortunately there isn't much point anyone suggesting anything as it seems unlikely they will actually support you or your daughter no matter what you try.

One of my DC has found toileting challenging (likely high functioning ASD) and our nursery were an amazing support for us so those saying you can't expect a nursery worker to manage just one child, they should regularly be asking the whole group every 15/20 minutes to go for a toilet break anyway and therefore should be picking up on her either already being wet or not going when they are all taken as a group. They will be taken several times a day as a group or should be!

As a side note OP something that was suggested to me as a childrens toileting watch. It will vibrate at a set timer to remind the child they need to go to the toilet, and then you associate the watch with a toilet break.
My DC still often leaves it too late if hyperfocused, or in places where they aren't comfortable going to the toilet (public or unusual houses etc)
I would work more on a positive affirmation when she does recognise she needs to go, and set timers either a watch or a sounding timer to remind her to go.
You could buy a sound timer and ask nursery to use it in her room, so they aren't actually having to remember specifically to remind her. A good nursery really will try and implement solutions to support this, if you have a rubbish one then I do get your in a tricky position.

They can’t be setting alarms twice a day to take your dd to toilet, if they did that with all 8 children that’s 16 alarms a day. You need to take responsibility for your child, if she’s not dry and can’t take herself to the toilet then she needs to be back in nappies she’s not ready yet. If your DD ha come home 50times wet you need to take action snd put her in nappies stop passing the buck.

you have this one issue other parents have their issues which mounts up to an impossible task to keep every parent happy it’s just not practical.

I'm afraid there was no magic answer: it was just time. Eventually he started going by himself. Sorry that's not very helpful! You've said on the thread that it would feel a real backwards step to put her back in nappies and I agree- that was where I was. Because it wasn't a child with no bladder control who had accidents every ten minutes. It was a child who was perfectly capable of using the toilet but was very resistant to the idea of doing so. He's 9 now and no toilet issues, though interestingly very resistant to taking baths and showers. He loves them once he's in (no sensory issues or anything): he just doesn't like interrupting what he's doing to 'waste his time' (his words!) to get clean!

Why can’t they send her every time someone else goes.

So no criticism of the neglectful nursery staff who leave multiple children in wet clothes and seem to not give two shits about supporting a totally normal part of development just a post to berate the OP who has tried her hardest to help her child with the issue?

Maybe in future before kicking someone when they are down stop and think before posting to consider if what you are about to say is helpful to the situation?

Double post.

This is actually something the HT of our local school has raised. That's why the nursery attached there remind their children at set intervals.

Nurseries very much used to be part of potty training children. The fact children are often now in nursery longer hours and the nurseries no longer have any part of it is having an impact things.

Nursery sounds neglectful. Of course many 3 year olds need reminding to go to the toilet. Take her out.

Is it a nursery school/preschool, by any chance?! Same old story every week on here.

Change her to a private nursery - they are much nicer with these issues

Why can't they?! This is a NURSERY!!!!

Would it help her if you got her a potty training watch? I think they beep/play a tune every so often to remind her to think about if she needs it. I didn't use one but might have if I knew about them. Or maybe she would ignore it?

Absolutely agree nursery are being neglectful – leaving a child clearly wet or soiled is unacceptable. You could try pushing this angle with the manager, or even report them for it, particularly as it's not just your child you've seen wet, but that's obviously a fairly dramatic step.

I would also agree that supporting toilet training, within limits, is absolutely part of a nursery's job, and I don't see how a group reminder to use the toilet every couple of hours is so impossibly onerous. Even DD would ignore a general reminder, a competent nursery should be able to cope with the fact that this specific child needs to be taken to the toilet at the general reminder times – and it's not exactly a huge amount of extra work if there are a few going at that point anyhow. Do your nursery do group reminders at all?

In terms of helping it click for DD, you mention fear at one point. Can she explain what she's frightened of? Or agree/disagree if you suggest things it might be?

The flip side of rewarding going on her own is generally trying to make having an accident maximally inconvenient for her (at home, I mean). When she has an accident, do you have her get her own wet things off, clean her legs, put wet stuff where it goes, wash hands, get her own dry things and put them on? I also point out this takes a long time and it would be faster to get the wee in the toilet (just sort of factually, or sympathetically if they're clearly anxious to get back to playing, not a lecture).

Did not know this was a thing but I think I need this!