How much independence do your kids have?

[MoiraRoseIsMyQueen]

I’ve just read this from Jonathan Haidt on Insta - https://www.instagram.com/p/DM_O3uFsqne/?img_index=8&igsh=cWplaTB5ZTM2bW9i - and it’s really made me think about my son and how much we ‘let’ him do. He’s just turned 9, but he’s a very young 9 - doesn’t have a phone, doesn’t go online or play computer games (he would if he could 😁 but we don’t have an Xbox etc). Quite honestly I’m happy for him to stay playing with his Lego and cars for as long as possible, I think children grow up too quickly nowadays!

But, this made me wonder - does he have enough independence, and what do others let their kids do? We don’t live in an area that allows him much independence currently - bit rough, very busy roads, etc, so it’s not really the norm for kids to go out alone. But we’ll be moving soon to a much quieter area, with possibly more opportunities for him to be independent - for example, we’ll have a park behind our house. Would you let him go with a friend and no adult? What do you let/encourage your similar-aged kids to do on their own?

Lots of schools do. It really depends on where the school is. One school mine attended allowed it from Yr3, but in reality that was a Yr5/6 pupil walking home with their Yr3 sibling. Another school didn't allow Yr5/6 parents onto the playground to force a bit of independence

I love this!

We’re a village school with only one main road really that runs through it and a lollipop man is on that. Seems crazy to have parents adjusting work patterns for year 5s to be able to walked 2 minutes to the door.

This thread has made me think as well about the absolute joy children get from being ‘allowed’ to do grown up stuff. And thus, the reverse, what kids miss out on. 1 memory is of dd at about 11 ( I can’t remember exactly) for her birthday being allowed go take a few friends to choose something in Primark (I gave her my card and waited outside) then on their own table at pizza express etc. they were so so excited. One girl wasn’t allowed to come.

sometimes I’ve been heart in mouth, waiting anxiously at home for them to get home, but know that realistically the small steps are actually ultimately keeping them safer rather than one giant step. (Although pleased, if somewhat intrigued, by the poster above who did do this and it was fine).

I still remember vividly the joy I felt the first time my mum let me walk to the tennis club to fetch my brother home. Was only up the road but I felt like I was so grown up and free.

DS didn't go anywhere completely unsupervised until secondary school age. He got the bus to school then. Even at secondary school age I didn't want him hanging around with groups of teens with nothing to do any more than I wanted him hanging out via a phone with groups of kids/SM with nothing to do. I hate kids/teens just hanging around parks or town centres with nothing to do.

At 9 he went to clubs, played in the garden building dens, loved reading, loved playing board and card games as well as (age appropriate) computer games, had friends round or went to theirs. He didn't go anywhere off on his own and it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest that is it required if you want to keep a kid off a phone or to make sure they can cope at uni.

Honestly I think the idea that teens have to be given all these freedoms or they won't cope at uni is just nonsense. Hanging out in a park is not a necessary learning experience. Fine to go to the cinema or go for something to eat as they get older, but not just hanging around.

DS is living away, doing a degree apprenticeship, working 4 days with the fifth at uni and is autistic - and he is loving it. Actually showing them how to cook, use a washing machine, catch a bus and train etc are much more important than just letting them hang out at a park or town centre with their mates every week. They're not learning any positive or useful life skills there, more likely learning how to vape, drink - or chase boys if they're anything like I was.

Living life at uni is not rocket science anyway though, you don't need years of preparing for it. You can literally look anything you don't know how to do up on Google, or you ask your mates or just read the instructions. That's how we all muddled through when I went anyway (except we didn't even have the internet).

Why would they need to go to the beach without me or the park without me driving them to or from the park?
You make it work because it’s important to you to do so, if it’s not important for your teens to be safe then I guess she stick them on a train. With all the county Line drug runners paedophiles etc.

I think independence is everything and what gives them confidence. My DDs are 12 and 15. We moved much closer to the city centre and they go shopping on their own when they want to. They have their own debit cards linked to me.
dd2 gets the bus to school which is a public bus. I notice she’s much braver than dd1 about taking different services and stopping off with friends and going in to town. I have find my iPhone on her I know where she is.

I think theres no household tasks they are too young to do now though I must do more cooking with them. There is an expectation they take the buns out and clean out the furries and walk the dog. Dd2 tries to get out of it. Dd1 just gets on with it.
they have both moved into bigger bedrooms and had them decorated as they like. This has made both of them much tidier and organised - we did big declutters before they moved. They mostly clean and vacuum themselves. Dd1 cleans her own bathroom once a week now.

I will help them more when I want them to focus on exams etc (school and dance) and during those times I will help them much more. But otherwise they need to learn to manage. We celebrate independence in my house especially tricky jobs and the mates is ‘don’t be pathetic’ which they think is v funny and true.

But when they got to the beach or the park, were they allowed to be by themselves, or with friends on their own, or were you there with them at all times? I can’t even fathom being available 24/7 to take my kids everywhere, it’s just impossible logistically.
I get worrying about the dangers, what parent doesn’t, but if you stop kids having some kind of independence because you think paedophiles or county lines drug dealers are lurking at every available opportunity then that’s a very severe kind of anxiousness.
I guess what works for one wouldn’t work for all 🤷🏻‍♀️

@florathedress this is wild! How will these kids assess risk in the future?
I let my 15 year old get the train with her friends to another town to go and see a theatre show. Is that abuse?

Well one of them is a doctor, the other one is a teacher and the other one is a probation officer so they’re managing quite well at the moment.
The Frontal lobe isn’t fully developed until they are 21 years old and that is when they become able to risk assess adequately before then it’s good luck or not as the case maybe

But that's the thing... its not dangerous for DS to walk 15mins through the village to the Scout hut fir example

I'm sorry that you live somewhere that it is too dangerous for a teenager to do that

Because it’s important part of growing up.

OP at just 9 mine were allowed to play out with friends on a large green just up the road from our house. They were also allowed to walk to school and back in a group with friends (medium sized village, loads of adults/children all walking the same route at the same time). I didn’t leave them home alone for short periods until 10, but that’s because they didn’t actually want to be left.
We live in a village where everyone knows everyone so there will always be someone ‘keeping an eye out’.

Why would it be unsafe for them to do all these things at 17.5, but as soon as they turn 18 it’s safe for them to fly across the world?

I worry about what my DCs would do if things go wrong, if they have never been anywhere on their own. DS has quite bad anxiety but has now worked out he can ask for directions in our small safe town.

I’m sorry that you’re naive enough to think that it doesn’t happen walking through a village

Because of the sheer joy that being independent brings to teens.And also the confidence.

I think you’re lucky that your kids were fine with your approach, and I’m happy for you that it was, rather than it being the norm. The people I know who had childhoods like this went off the rails at Uni. I think there’s also a risk of them going no contact with you.

on the confidence point, a neighbour confided in me once that her dd had no confidence, she was throwing money at drama lessons, counselling etc. then came a day when I had to drive her dd somewhere, she was about 10. I was about to drive off when her dd piped up from the back ‘you haven’t done my seat belt up yet.’ I was thinking wtaf, no wonder this child has no confidence. What message does it send your dc if you are constantly doing things for them that all their peers do themselves? Seatbelt in this case, catching a train with friends in another. I would worry it sends them a message that their parents don’t think they’re capable, which I would think in most cases would undermine their confidence.

I know OUR village. The most likely thing to happen is being startled by a rabbit.
Or an escaped lion, but I don't think being with me will help her except she can run faster.

Of course there are risks, but its about keeping them in proportion.

If it can happen to them at 17 and 10 months, it can happen to them at 18.

Or you could look at it that you’ve saved them for another two months. Glass half full and all that

It’s absolutely no risk whatsoever of children going no contact when they don’t have abusive childhood and nothing happens to them that their parents could’ve predicted might happen to them and didn’t shield them from.
Far more children look back and wonder what was so important in their parents life that they needed to foist independence on them as opposed to keeping them safe. Money being more important than time spent with their children these days it seems

“Saved them” ?!

That is honestly the strangest way of parenting I’ve heard. Bringing up children as they become teenagers and then adults is not about ‘saving them’ from dangers, it’s about giving them the tools to understand those dangers and deal with them if and when they arise. And that’s not wrapping them in cotton wool until the eve of their 18th birthday. It’s good your kids turned out fine and it sounds like they’re doing well in life but I honestly think you’re lucky they are. As another pp said, I know kids who weren’t given any freedom and life didn’t turn out so well as adults because of it.

as parents we risk assess all the time @florathedress

take the going to the beach scenario with friends at 16.

my risk assessment was that is was safer for dd to travel on the train with her friends. Statistically trains are much safer than cars in terms of crashes. I know dd well enough that there is absolutely zero chance of her getting involved in county lines. She was with friends so the chance of her being SA’d on a public train is virtually zero. Safety aside, this route was far more enjoyable for dd (I’m not going to pretend that at 16 my company is anywhere near as exciting for her as her friends are), gave her first hand experience of getting a train without me, in a small step fashion.

you chose to drive your dc to keep them safe. Statistically, it simply isn’t safer. But what happened when you got them to the beach? Do you drive back, hang around waiting for them, how does it work?

I'm assuming if @florathedress DCs were involved in any independence training at primary school or any school trips you refused permission as heaven forbid they be allowed to go shopping with their school mates or take the bus independently like my DD primary school did with them when they were TEN.

Florathedress would not cope with my country, where primary school children are sent off into the forest alone for orienteering and cross country skiing!

If this is true then it's mind blowing and completely bonkers. Did they not kick up a fuss about this weird over protective parenting?