What do you do when a child scares and upsets yours on more than one occasion?

[OhSally]

I'm finding this really awkward.

We are a large group of friends, all parents, all our kids are ages 5-7. We often all meet up, suggest others tag along in the group chat if one of us has fun plans, etc.

My trouble is one little one, will call Sally for the sake of this thread, has upset or scared my child several times now, and the last incident scared my child so much that I've said to them that I will no longer knowingly put them in a social situation with Sally. If we happen to turn up somewhere and they are there too, I will keep a VERY close eye and be in close proximity at all times (and probably stay a shorter space of time).

Things in the past have involved Sally taking an integral part out of my child's toy that they were kindly sharing and throwing it in a pond, pushing them off a climbing frame, damaging a toy with their teeth and denying it, that kind of thing. The last incident involved them pushing my child's head under water in a paddling pool in our garden. Each time Sally has been playing nicely and then very quickly done these things, and seemed completely unphased each time while my child has been sad or scared. I had written it off as them being excitable and impulsive but the last incident if I'm honest scared me too. I'd literally turned to put something down and it happened so quickly. The same day of the paddling pool incident they'd done something very similar to another child too.

I don't plan to purposefully exclude Sally from group things e.g. invite every other child but her. I'd never do that to a child or their parent. I will instead focus on planned 1:1 kid playdates for a while, mostly with their school pals, or just family stuff and say we are quite busy.

I know Sally's mum has had other mums distance themselves (e.g. NCT mums) and I know it won't go well trying to discuss it with them. Mum doesn't want to see or address the behaviour.

What would other's do in this situation? Do you think my plan going forwards is okay?

I've apologised to my child and told them going forward they choose which kids we plan to play with or meet up with, and explained it's fine to decide for themselves on their own friends (which they have - they've clearly told me they don't think Sally is a kind friend) as long as it's not an everyone's invited except Sally sort of scenario. My child is quite shy and quiet, and I feel sad for them that they will likely see a bit less of the whole wider friendship group now but don't see what else I can do other than step back a fair bit.

I know it probably seems like a no brainer but I'm an anxious person and I think just need other parent's views on the whole situation.

I think what you are doing is fine but if you're in a situation with Sally again I would loudly call her out everytime she does something wrong so her mum and everyone can hear. If Sally's mum isnt going to discipline her kid others will and if she doesnt like it she will have to step up and sort out her own kid. Kids like Sally arent use to being told of or told no so someone saying it might be enough to make her think twice shes clearly desperate for attention and her mum obviously doesnt give a shit.

WTF! I think you majorly under reacted to them holding your child’s head under water. I’d have lost my shit and their parent would have known exactly how I felt.

you are right to support your child and I would certainly be directing play away from Sally if she turns up. I literally wouldn’t allow my child to play with her as she sounds awful!

Sorry I think you need to exclude a child who did this, and tell the parents why

I did actually think I was going to lose my cool with the paddling pool incident, and actually moved away because I really felt I was going to blow my top, which wouldn't have helped my child calm down. My focus was on checking them over and that they were safe and comforted.

Sally's mum is very "wet" and avoidant about telling sally off. I actually agree she is crying out for attention! The incident when Sally damaged a toy with their teeth, my child told us mums and Sally's mum said something like "oh maybe it looked like they did it but actually didn't". 🙄 🤦

I do regret there being more than one incident where my child has been upset. I put the first ones down to being impulsive, excitable etc and they're all youngish kids but it's not something I'm willing to accept going forwards.

This is dangerous op. I had one like this and had to cut contact after a scarf incident. Before that it was constant aggravation. It’s not fair on your DC

The DM was the same btw, worst telling off would be ‘that wasn’t very nice’ after appalling behaviour

I had a similar experience. I stopped having the friendship group to my house, I realised that I shouldn’t be allowing it or happen in our home - my child’s safe space. I spoke to the other friends in the group and they were happy I was putting my child first. I generally distanced myself so there was less play dates and kept a very close eye when we did have them.

Yes my child will not be in arms reach of Sally if we happen to bump into them somewhere, say at the park for example. I'd be in-between them, watching them like a hawk and saying a cheery goodbye oh such a shame we were heading off type thing. There'll be no more planned meet ups with them.

Two damaged toys and two incidents where my child was at physical risk. I've been more than understanding and open minded but the paddling pool thing made it crystal clear that we can no longer be around them. I'm just sad for my child that I didn't draw the line sooner but as I say I tried to be understanding, and also it will mean less time with the other kids in this wide group of friends. But I can live with that. Fortunately we also have school friends, neighbour kids, cousins, etc so it will be fine.

How old is this child?

I agree your plan is the best way forward.

RandomMess they are six.

I would totally distance myself and child from Sally and her mum, your child could have drowned and her mum said nothing!? I would turn down any invites from them and exclude them.

Sprycat the mum didn't say anything to me immediately after and I then moved away with my child to see to them and calm them down (and so I didn't start shouting and swearing tbh as I was ready to lose my cool) but the mum also didn't say anything afterwards either!

I think she is very very in denial about her child's behaviour and just wants to pretend everything is fine etc. I'm not accepting that.

It's unimaginable to me. I'd have been mortified and apologetic, left with my child as a consequence, had my child apologise. Broken toys would have been replaced, I'd not have offered even, I'd just have presented a replacement. Sally's mum has done none of those things. She just goes all faux sad and then changes the subject. 🙄😡

I'd felt sad for her a year ago when she'd mentioned losing other friends but now I can completely see why. It's really upsetting, maddening and concerning!

Six is old for such compulsive destructive behaviours. There could well be be undiagnosed or acknowledged SEN.

Regardless of the parent refuses to parent by watching like a hawk you do what is necessary to protect your child.

I had to make a similar decision recently. The incidents weren't as serious, but my DS kept saying he didn't want to play with the other child any more. As a fellow anxious person, I understand why you're stressed about this. I thought of it this way - it is good parenting to teach my child that his feelings are important, and that we don't put up with abuse from others just to be polite or to avoid rocking the boat. Absolutely you're doing the right thing 👍

I think there could be some undiagnosed SEN. I would agree with what other posters are saying and to be upfront with Sally's mum about it and suggest she explains these incidents to her daughters school and ask if they think put together with their knowledge of her whether there should be an assessment carried out.

I think it’s important to teach your child to be kind but you also have to teach them not to tolerate abusive people. That means no invites for Sally, not pretending to be Sally's friend in order to not offend. It means validating his feelings and respecting he doesn’t feel safe with her nearby.

Sally is being taught, her behaviour is acceptable, or just plain ignored, she could deliberately seriously harm another child and both her and her mum are going to be in for a real shock. Some people would have no qualms about hitting out at a vicious child who seriously injured their own and then turning on mum.

Harder when you’re part of a group but you’re doing the right thing. I had a friend who’s child was too aggressive towards mine and the response was so tepid, I made a decision not to see the child any more or subject my child to play dates (I maintained a friendship with the mum as best I could). Her son has since been diagnosed with autism. But it’s the management of the behaviour as well as the behaviour itself that is the problem!

I'd have lost my shit by now

Sounds like Sally needs some boundaries and consequences.

How you could sit there and not react when someone puts your child's head under water, I do not know!

Yes stop friendship with Sally/ mum. Do things with other families/school friends and and avoid group meet ups where Sally is included. It would be unfair to subject your child to that for the sake of social niceties

Sounds more like a child crying out for attention. My dd had a child who broke her toys and stole from us. In her case her parents were alcoholics and paid very little attention to her. But she was very bright and able

My household has a ND parent and so does Sally's household. Neither my child or Sally are diagnosed with anything but either of them or both of them could very well be ND, they're both clearly quirky in different ways.

I didn't mention this in my posts though because I'm of the school of thought that this is a parenting issue not an sen issue.

I think if your child is struggling with behaviours like this, you manage it, you supervise extremely closely, you guide them, you display role model behaviours like apologies, you show actions have consequences etc. I've disagreed with other ND mums about this in the past, some (not all but some) mums are of the shrug their shoulders and just blame the neurodiversity and not try to help their kids. 🤦

I do actually really feel for Sally. She's not getting any help really from her mum and will end up with no little friends to play with. 😔 Behaviour is communication and she is clearly struggling!

I have felt very strongly about my child not being a people pleaser, and about thinking about what makes a good friend, what shouldn't we accept from people in our lives etc. One of the reasons I feel strongly about this is that as an autistic woman who was raised to "be kind" and "be quiet and polite" etc it has put me in some very negative situations over the years that I've had to process in therapy and kind of rewrite my thoughts patterns that I was taught as a child.

Exactly the SEN may well be the reason but it’s the poor (or no) parenting that has allowed the issues to occur and reoccur.

Having your child's head held underwater??!! You need to be brutally honest with the other parent(s) and explain that their child cannot be around yours.

I don't plan to purposefully exclude Sally from group things e.g. invite every other child but her. I'd never do that to a child or their parent.
Why not? This is 100% what I would do. This isn’t standard playground squabbles- Sally is downright dangerous, the other children are all at risk and the mother is doing nothing about it. I’d have every sympathy if she was on it and watching her like a hawk but she can’t be bothered and/or is totally blinkered as to the reality of it. And why should you, DD and the other kids and their mums have to miss out on meet ups that would otherwise be really enjoyable?