I’ve failed

[Chariotballs]

I feel like such a failure. My kids are so rude, ungrateful and disrespectful. They bully me and it’s degrading. I can’t help thinking it’s too late..I’ve failed in my most important job. I know I can’t give up but every day I feel like running away. They’re all fine ‘on the outside’ but my 13 year old bullies his sisters and me, believes he’s an adult and should be allowed do whatever he likes, never does what I ask him to do. My 11 yr old bullies her little sister, copying the behaviour she gets dealt by her brother. She tells me she hates me and never does what I ask. The little one is only 4 but I can already see her copying big sister and brother in the way she speaks to me. They all spend too much time on screens of course.
hindsight is a great thing..yes I obviously didn’t set clear enough boundaries, I wasn’t consistent in my application of rules, I wasn’t modelling the right behaviour. I have failed as a mum and I’ve failed them. Thing is I think I try hard to be a good mum, so realising how badly I’ve done is really hard. Please help me with advice on where I go from here. I can’t turn the clock back to when they were younger and more malleable. The bad habits I’ve facilitated are ingrained now. I’m crying writing this as tonight I watched a tv show with 13 and 11 yr old and when at 9.30 I said ok time for bed, 13 yr old had a meltdown as he wanted to watch more, and by meltdown I mean shouting, using his height and bulk to intimidate me. He was so angry that he kicked his football in the kitchen so hard that it broke 4 yr olds play kitchen.

Where was your DH last night when your DS was kicking off at 9.30? The way you wrote your post made it sound as though you’re a lone parent, but you mention your DH later on. Why wasn’t he addressing the violent behaviour and agreeing behaviour standards this morning? Is he the dad of all three children?

He was there. Like I said, DP steps in when eldest gets out of line physically. But that doesn’t stop eldest doing it if you get me? And it doesn’t stop me feeling like I’ve failed.
Yes he’s the Dad of all three. He was at work this morning.

Yes he does

If you can't be bothered to take the phones away then things won't change. In fact, they are likely to get worse.

What this person says! I run my house not my kids. No way would I tolerate that. It’s time to get the big pants on. Sit them all done and explain the changes. Do not break.

Thanks..I was just pondering whether me working out of the house would balance the task of disciplining a bit more. Of course I’m not saying I’d leave my eldest in charge, if I decided that and if I were lucky enough to get a new job…

Ok..so how have you done this? Can you share your experience?

4, 11 and 13 cannot be too late op!! We had to get the kids under control in the last few years, not quite the same, no bullying, just acting older than they were when talking, living on screens, turning soooo lazy!!

What has helped us getting them off screens by bribing into days out, board games very very regularly, family movies with no devices (bribes to get more screen time, goodies while doing activity, or eg an evening out bowling). My 10 year old is now mad for old beano and dandy snnuals and we’re back reading Harry Potter!

I took away screens and left them in in laws house for days so they wouldn’t get them back. I also started getting them to help more around the house and thanked them like they were toddlers (May as well be honest), loads of hugs etc, also baked more etc etc. Biggest thing- on a bad day remember the stuff you’ve done right and don’t let blow ups feel bigger than the progress

"I still need to figure out what to do with 11 yr old as she’s constantly asking when she’s getting hers."

You tell her she doesn't get one until she starts behaving and you follow through on that.

They clearly won't listen to you so don't just keep telling them, take action. You'll be doing them a favour by teaching them that actions have consequences. You remove gaming devices/phones/favourite trainers and clothes/whatever they particularly value to punish bad behaviour. You don't give them lifts around or facilitate activities, you don't feed them favourite foods, you don't organise playdates, you don't create nice hairstyles etc. Whatever it is they enjoy and that you facilitate gets removed until they have earned it back with good behaviour.

Yes, you will get a reaction but you don't have to engage with it. You don't answer unless you are spoken to decently. You don't respond to rudeness or threats. Your husband has to be in this with you, there has to be consistency.

It's not going to be easy being suddenly incredibly strict, but then it doesn't sound very easy or pleasant as it is. You sound at the end of your tether with it so it's reasonable to take drastic action. On the other hand, whenever they are good, polite and decent, you reward like mad.

Thanks. Well done you 👏🏽 I thought I did too but it’s becoming clear I really don’t. If you have any tips for staying strong/dealing with defiance I’d be very grateful. Obviously these habits are ingrained now so they’re not going to change overnight and I foresee a bumpy ride if I’m to get to where you’re at

A poster on here recommended the book "Who's in Charge?" There are some good tips in there.

If you're suggesting to me that between two grown adults you cannot remove a phone from a 11/13 year old child then it's not that you can't, you just won't.

That’s a really unhelpful attitude to someone who’s on the edge and asking for help. If you’ve done this, I’m asking you to share your tips for how to do it successfully, with minimal pain to all parties.

While they're at school. They're not there, you can do what you need to with any of their belongings. If it is physically difficult in some way due to their presence you just have to get more creative about it. Everyone goes to the toilet at some point, has a bath or shower, goes to sleep.

It will be bluntly... pretty unpleasant.
It it will be painful but its short term pain long term gain...

I would just rip the plaster off and just remove all of them.

Your DH has to be home at some point presumably so together with dh i would tell the kids its happening and why (because you made a mistake giving them smart phones and tablets) when you are together.

If it escalates too much I'd explain the tv WILL be removed too. Hate your brick phone? Fine. You can have no phone. Your choice.
my kids are a bit younger but oldest already knows very clearly when to pack it in and that mummy means business .
My friend has oldr kids and she literally just removes the tv power cable when her tweens are dicks which i think is genius.

Ignore the name which is garbage but there's a woman who has an IG account called brat busters. I rate her and find her frameworks for driving the right behaviour simple to follow.
It shows how how you can still be "fun mummy" and have standarss of behaviour and rules.

thank you. I’m looking for tips on how to manage the fallout of removing a phone from a child who’s used to it, has had it over a year, does their homework on it, uses it to communicate with friends etc. The physical act of removing a phone is not the issue.

Given where you are in the year I'd be inclined to do it at the end of the school year.

That way he has the summer to get used to it and cant wear you down pretending he cant do school work without it.

You can only ignore it. Of course they're going to react but you can only carry on the same path - ignore or punish the bad behaviour and reward the good. If you're firm enough about it they'll learn very quickly that the bad behaviour doesn't serve them. Most teenagers are pretty self-serving and prefer to act in their own best interests.

What sort of fallout are you so worried about? Is it that the 13 year old will get physical and you or your younger children will get hurt? Because if that's the case then you need help at a professional level. If it's just tantrumming and bad moods then you've probably got quite a lot of that to come anyway as standard teenage behaviour!

And homework can be done on a laptop, under supervision. If there's some reason it can't then you hand over the phone just for homework. If that means you struggle to get it back then you don't hand it over and advise the school to feel free to punish your child for not doing his homework. That's on him.

Of course it's not going to be nice - your child is going to think you're the most evil mother ever. However this is just a phase and you will be doing them a favour in the long run.

Of course it's not always that easy. If your children cannot respond to such a basic level of parenting, if there is violence or out of control behaviour then you have a different problem and your child(ren) will need more help than just your parenting can give. Are you worried there is something else going on?

My kids are both under school age, so maybe this is very naive but I think removing all devices feels like over kill, and very demoralising for your son, essentially giving him no incentive to behave.

I would be tempted to make sure you have appropriate parental settings with the options to unlock apps at certain times. Then linked to your family reset, have rock hard family rules that everyone knows, with clear and immediate consequences. So certain behaviours lose phone privileges for a proportionate amount of time and good behaviours unlock new rewards.

I don’t know if parenting a teenager is anything like parenting a 4 year old but consequences have to be proportionate and immediate, otherwise the connection between that and the action just doesn’t sink in. I think if you just remove screens with no clear boundaries, it breaks trust.

Also, contrary to earlier suggestions about getting them into more activities, is it possible they are feeling over-scheduled? Are they so tired, they feel wired in the evenings without enough downtime? Which could cause the bed time melt down. Perhaps making family time more rewarding but less scheduled at home might help. E.g. A nice long kick about in the garden with dad, rather than football training followed by a bit screen time and a rush to bed.

Like I said, I don’t have teens so this might be unhelpful!

I don't know why people think the tech is the cause of all evil. It isn't and at 13 it is a way they communicate, it just is. Of course there is a happy medium and need rules like no tech at the table etc. But am outright ban these days isnt practical and not always or often the cause of rudeness. Thas seems to be society in general at the moment. Rife within schools how some kids speak to adults and each other.
Consquences are needed for rudeness absolutely. But battles must be picked also. 9.30 on a Friday seems early to go to bed for a 13-14 year old. Fine if a school night.

I just feel like people on here blame technology for all society's woes and this is not the case.
There is a balance.

I'm not sure anyone has said it yet but you aren't a failure, you aren't a bad mum - you are navigating a new bit of parenting with a 13 year old who is navigating a tricky bit of growing up from child to older teen. Y9 is a notoriously emotionally difficult year

And yes all the changes tech brings from social anxiety to dopamine hits does make it all harder. But you are clearly trying and stepping up every day so that's amazing. It does sound like you aren't very well supported - maybe go and see a friend and get some perspective.

I don't think taking phones away is the answer but maybe work out some new rules together.

Youre not a bad mum.
You’ve spoken to your dh and hopefully he’s on board with boundary setting. He needs to step in as soon as he sees your eldest needs disciplining.
He should also be spending time with the kids rather than just watching tv.
Is he around on the weekends? Does your dh do any chores or diy around the house? Get him to start getting the kids involved, especially eldest.
The kids need chores that have to be done before screen time.
Take their screens away and they get them back later.
Do some things together that are fun and get the family out.
Seeing as your dh likes watching tv, watch tv together or a film with some snacks.

OP I'd highly recommend having a look at the 'Smartphone Free Childhood' website for support on removing phone/delaying getting one.

It has a lot of support at my child's school, and I'm personally fully on board with it.

Thank you @pitterypattery00 I'm aware of this and the schools are fully on board. It’s tricky when my eldest already has one but I intend on following the guidelines for the others, hard as that will be, particularly for the 11 year old.

Thank you also @Blueyshift and @Ketryne for an alternative viewpoint on tech. A few years ago (likely before my eldest moved from primary) in a talk on keeping kids safe in the digital age, I was told that removing devices is not recommended as it encourages secrecy and defiance as well as failing to teach self-control and healthy boundaries. Perhaps the advice has changed since then.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post. I feel less alone and less of a failure after reading most of your responses. 🙏