New Friend Ruining Daughter’s Social Life

[Everythingputtogether]

Hello all - I’m seeking a little parenting advice from a female perspective as a single father with two daughters.

My eldest, 8, has always been super sociable with loads of friends, and sending her to school has never been a worry - she’s loved going as it’s been an opportunity to play with all her mates. She’s pretty much continually had a tight-knit group of about six close friends but also plays with others from time to time. And she has a ‘number one BFF’ she’s been close to from day one of reception.

In the last two or three months, though, things have changed, and it seems to be to do with a girl, P, who had never previously been somebody my daughter was friendly with, somehow inveigling herself in the friendship group. P is it seems very manipulative and has this way of setting people against each other, so that ever since she’s been on the scene there have been lots of fights and arguments, and the thing to do is for girls to pair up and have a ‘day together’ and not play with anyone else. So it seems as though each morning there’s a competition to decide who is having a ‘day with’ who. And my daughter very often has to end up playing with P, who insists often that it’s the two of them who are having a ‘day together’. (And, reading between the lines, I have a feeling the other girls use having a ‘day with’ somebody else as a way to avoid having to play with P.)

My daughter hates this. She desperately just wants her group of friends to play together, and she increasingly has made clear she doesn’t like P and doesn’t really want to play with her. But she doesn’t know what to do because she doesn’t want to hurt P’s feelings and is scared she’ll get in trouble if she tells P she doesn’t want to play with her. Now she’s worried she’s losing her other friends and that her BFF isn’t her BFF anymore. She was up until past 10pm last night crying about it. I’ve talked to the teacher and she’s said she’s keeping an eye on things, but I was wondering if anyone has dealt with this kind of situation and has advice what to do about it?

Eugghhh. Yes. 8 year old girls was a miserable time in our house. The teacher said it was a common age for things to go awry. Luckily it didn’t seem to last long and we got a break for another few years before teenage angst hit.
I think all you can do is support her in trying to be true to herself and what she wants.
Speaking from experience, parents getting involved calling other parents really didn’t help at this age. Leave it to the teachers and the girls.
And remember it all goes a bit crazy coming up to the end if the year. Hopefully September will bring a new start.
Good luck.

I would talk to teacher again.
I think these 'day togethers' are not healthy for in school relationships.
School should be proactive in break and lunch to stop this dynamic.

Sounds rubbish. Give your dd some words to say and practice it out loud. Reassure her she can say no to P and a good friend will be fine with that. That some of her other friends very likely feel the same.

"No thank you, I dont want to have a day together anymore I want to play as a group" even if the others dont join she should play with other class mates if necessary better than being stuck with P.

Tell her to go this morning and tell p when she says about day to together that she wants to play as a group “no thanks P were playing as a group today.” If P kicks off her & the girls just go off and play together anyway.

Unless the kid is some kind of evil genius I don’t imagine an 8 year old child can manipulate a whole group of mates against their will. So I’d step back from blaming the kid and take it as a group dynamic thing. Remember she’s just a little child.

Fundamentally the issue is that the group has evolved in a way your daughter doesn’t want… but as girls get around this age they often do start peeling off into twoses and not hang as a group as much. And it’s not unusual that there is a member of any friendship group that longs for the way things used to be.

I do agree with a prior poster that school can take a more proactive approach though and try to break this habit and force everyone to play as a group but it may be trying to turn back the tide.

I remember back in the mists of time around the same age I was similar to your daughter. Wanted to play as a group when the others wanted to peel off and have private chats. School tried to fix it (I was very emotional and my poor mother was beside herself) but it’s hard to force friendship dynamics. It was a hard time but of course nothing is forever. I think for most kids school is cyclical for friendships… some periods of time everything goes great and they are super popular, other times not so much, then suddenly they’re back on top again. It’s painful but part of kids natural development ad they figure things out.

sending love x

"Day together" sounds messed up and a recipe for exclusion and bullying even for normally well adjusted kids. I'd have a word with the teacher, not complaining and not about your daughter/P specifically, but just as general sharing of concern about the social environment. Teacher can't ban cliques and pairs from forming but can try to encourage a more inclusive environment

Thanks. Yeah, there is a pattern to the school year with things deteriorating after Easter….

Yes, I’m going to do that. The ‘day together’ thing really just rang alarm bells the instant I heard about it.

Thanks, I’ve made that suggestion to her this morning.

This is what I would do and what I initially started telling her to do, but it seems like it’s a non-starter because it would hurt P’s feelings. This is one of those things I struggle with because when I was that age I feel like I just wouldn’t have cared!

Thanks - there is a lot of wisdom in this but P is an odd kid. She is about a foot taller than the others and much bigger physically and she tends to throw her weight around literally and metaphorically. Through sotto voce conversations with other parents I know that she has a reputation for being somebody they don’t want their children to play with.

I agree. Thanks for this.

Girl friendships can be quite difficult. As an ex primary teacher - boys are more straightforward with their friendships- they have a fight or a football match and the pecking order simply re settles and many of these arguments simply dissipate.

I’d be inviting some of the girls she prefers over to play dates - one on one- to reaffirm the original friendships.

Id also tell the teacher so she can remind them that they all play together. In addition, Id want them to get the playground equipment out, skipping ropes, balls and the like so they can play some team games.

It’s rough to see your little one struggling but it will come good with time. Good luck

Thanks for that. It’s tough being a father in this kind of situation because male friendships are, as you say, much simpler. I don’t have a great deal of advice to give because in my head it just boils down to, ‘Play with somebody else then.’

Unless the kid is some kind of evil genius I don’t imagine an 8 year old child can manipulate a whole group of mates against their will. So I’d step back from blaming the kid and take it as a group dynamic thing. Remember she’s just a little child
Oh but yes they can! One child can fundamentally shift the dynamic of a group.
You can't change this child though - but you can help your own child learn how to advocate for themself and recognise unhealthy dynamics and how to get out of them.
This is a really key life skill and friendship issues at primary schools (even more so at high school) are unfortunately where you get started on dealing with conflict.

Ah ok. Extra context. My son has a mate like that and we try and keep them apart

I agree with this. I have an older primary aged child and (normal) friendship issues have started. We chat about what has happened and come up with simple, assertive but polite sentences to say and rehearse them in context. My child is quite timid, not confident to confront and worried about upsetting friends so we find this is a good way to go about it. I say “if you have the confidence, say it, but if you don’t that’s also okay…” but they know if they don’t speak up then things won’t change, and that’s not a mean thing to let happen as a parent, it’s a good lesson for them to learn, in my opinion.

Unfortunately this seems to be a things with groups of girls. My daughter went through similar things a couple of times when another, more confident girl joined the group.
its so difficult to know what to do. I would suggest talikng to her teacher. They may have a school counsellor who may be able to help, they did at my girls’ school.
also try to arrange some play dates with her best friend out of school.
good luck x

Can you have small group playdates outside school without this child, I wonder if your dd and her best friends are spending some time together without this child they might be able to re establish some norms and games rhey all like playing together (maybe a park trip). I'd definitely speak to the school again, singling a child out and forcing them to spend the day with only 1 person isn't just friendship dynamics it's got hints of bullying to it and it's clearly upsetting your daughter. Girls are awful though, and it's good that she learns how to deal with this and builds some experience and resilience before secondary, because it will be the kind of thing she'll encounter in the teenage years too (sorry!)
I agree with the simple "nope, let's all play as a group" statement if she can, it'll help her advocate for herself. Role play it with her, so she can say the words aloud and feel what that's like, and focus on none hurtful things, so it isn't "I don't want to play with you P" instead it's "let's all play together". If she can navigate this it'll stand her in good stead for the future too.

I had a similar situation though not the same. I role played the situation with my daughter - what would she say if P says 'X', and then run through various imaginary conversations where I pretended to be P putting pressure on her. This gives your daughter ready to go responses when she is under pressure with P. This, together with asking for the teacher's help to keep them apart, seemed to work.

Girl group dynamics are pretty hideous most of the time. My now 11 year old has periodically had similar issues since she was about eight too.

It's great to give your daughter an answer she can use in this circumstance but the reality is that it's going to be very hard for her to be strong enough to stand up to this on her own. For my daughter I tried to strengthen her relationships with one or two of the other girls so she could feel more confident that they would back her if she had to stand up to the problem child. The fact is that even if we weathered that storm, another one would and does arise soon enough.

The only comfort was speaking to other mothers and finding out they were mostly all going through the same thing! It seems to be an unfortunate but standard part of female development. I try to talk quite a lot to my daughter about the concept of being the bitchy girl - and how she shouldn't! We have plenty of conversations about these dynamics and how normal it is that she's going through this. I may not be able to solve specific problems but I try and build her confidence so it doesn't bring her down so much.

I’d get the teacher to explicitly address the ‘day together’ nonsense. . I would also have done small groups of girls home for tea or whatever.

I agree with this, one child, or one woman later on in life absolutely can manipulate the whole dynamic of a group intentionally or otherwise.

I would also say, that again it’s absolutely possible that one person can impact the dynamics, it’s a controlling relationship, somewhat coercive. Now, of course it’s coming from a child but still, expecting another child to manage the situation herself is unreasonable and a bit unfair, which is why the teacher needs to step in.

My sister had this and organised a kids and parent meet up at our local park. She said to all the mums the usual crap chat but focused on them all interacting. It was obvious to all and was handled as a group all wanting their girlies to be happy. We all want the same outcome for our children 🫶