What age is ok to kill small animals?

[Barem]

Hi all,

I have a four year old son, and his father has taken him to his families cabin for the weekend.

They’ve taken some fishing nets as it’s close to the water, which I thought would be really sweet for my son to play with.

Yesterday his father told me that they’d caught a crab and he’d let my son kill it with a hammer to use as bait. I said I wasn’t too happy with this as I want him to enjoy learning about animals but not take enjoyment in killing them (at least this young).

Today he told me they’d caught a fish and killed it for the dogs to eat.

When I asked if they could catch it (it’s in a net not on a hook) and throw it back in he accused me of trying to ruin all their fun and put a downer on their day.

My son is meant to be back this morning but now father won’t tell me when he’s bringing him back.

What is everyone’s opinion on children killing animals yet? I’m a vegetarian so aware that I might be a bit more sensitive than others. But I’d have hoped that his father would at least consider/ respect my feelings on this?

What era does his father think you all live in?!

Yeah, hammering a crab to death at 4 is so much better than throwing a rock at a pigeon and a 4 year old will definitely be able to comprehend why 😐. You can get outdoors without harming defenceless animals ya know.

I am fine with fishing, whether that is killing worms/maggot/mussels/crabs/smaller fish for bait or fish themselves for food.

Obviously not fine causing or enjoying excessive suffering, but nothing wrong with enjoying fishing as an activity and quickly dispatching a crab with a hammer to use as bait.

Well, yeah I would absolutely argue that dad killing a crab with one hammer strike, then letting the 4 yr old help smash it up into pieces to use as fishing bait, is not the same as letting your 4 yr old throw rocks at a pigeon. A 4 yr old is highly unlikely to instantly kill a pigeon with a rock - they’ll either miss it or maim it - and there is no useful reason to be hurting the pigeon, whereas the crab was killed for a purpose.

And the 4 yr old probably will remember why they killed the crab, seeing as they immediately used it as fishing bait.

Of course it’s better. One is mindless psychopathic behaviour to frighten and harm an animal for no reason. The other is learning a valuable outdoor skill.

It is absolutely incredible to me that you cannot comprehend this. If you want to go outdoors and have a lovely little walk- that’s fine for you. This child however is learning fishing with his father.

Here in the countryside kids are well aware of deer management, skinning rabbits, fishing, slaughter, and so on. This thread only shows up the ignorance of so many. If you don’t personally like it that’s fine, but to criticise this kid’s father is just ignorance.

How is 4 too young to learn how to get bait and catch fish? My not yet 4 year old uses hammers, screwdrivers, and other tools to help his dad with various projects. What nonsense are you all projecting onto this kid’s dad? He’s teaching him to get bait and fish.

Absolutely never acceptable ffs, what other responses did you expect OP?
If you need bait for fishing you buy it or prepare in advance.

Killing animals for fun is never ok.
Killing animals for food requires a mature understanding that this is never supposed to be fun and the primary responsibility is to be quick and careful to ensure the animal doesn't suffer, so is best only done by qualified professionals who can develop a perfect technique - when done by a hobby amateur there is always going to be less skill and therefore more suffering.
This man is teaching your child that it's ok for another creature to suffer for the sake of having fun. That is not ok.

I'm vegan so obviously opposed.

Catching a fish and learning how to prepare it, I honestly think is fine. Far better and more ethical than mass fish farming on an industrial scale!

I personally wouldn't like the idea of a 4yo hammering a crab... Just buy some dead bait like normal person. The problem with lay people doing this is that you aren't an expert and you're more likely to cause suffering.

' My son is meant to be back this morning but now father won’t tell me when he’s bringing him back. '

is this not a bigger issue ?
has this happened before ?

Completely agree with this! And I say that as someone who shoots and processes game. My DD learnt to pluck pheasants and skin rabbits etc at about 8/9 but whacking a crab to death with a hammer seems a bit brutal at 5 tbh. If you eat meat, you should show it respect and that means ensuring it has a quick, clean death and the meat is utilised as best you can.

You must know some mighty dim 4 year olds who can't understand the difference between kliiling for a purpose and killing fir fun

This is the actual issue. The bait and fishing isn’t.

Catching fish to eat I'd say is reasonable. But nobody of any age should kill animals for fun or amusement. Only for food. And only fish.
I don't know why, I heard fish have less feelings than mammals? That might be a lie.
I guess worms apparently don't feel pain so they might be OK. And maybe treading on ants is acceptable? I don't know now. None of it is good really is it?

Not letting you know when they'll be back is wrong but as someone who grew up on a farm I'm perfectly fine with children that young learning and seeing where meat/fish comes from, it should be done alongside learning respect for living things, the father may have also taught that side of things. We've become too detached from food production.

It depends how prolific a serial killer you want them to be.

Totally unacceptable as well as irresponsible. Teaching your small son to kill small animals or any living creatures on catching them is a very odd thing to do and could have unpleasant repercussions in the future.
I'd be livid OP if I were you.

@Ladamesansmerci
I personally wouldn't like the idea of a 4yo hammering a crab... Just buy some dead bait like normal person. The problem with lay people doing this is that you aren't an expert and you're more likely to cause suffering.

I don’t think you need to be an expert to kill a crab with a hammer without causing unnecessary suffering. I don’t imagine commercially killed bait would necessarily be killed more humanely.
I think getting a child to kill a crab to use for bait is more likely to help it understand and think about where food comes from rather than turning the kid into a serial killer.

Never ok.

This is such a strange thread.
Im a vegetarian. Mostly because of the way animals are reared and killed in this country. I have much less issue with a crab being swiftly bashed over the head than I do with it being boiled alive for some knob in a restaurant who cares more about the taste than the welfare. And I have less of a problem with a fish being killed quickly in its natural habitat and fed to the dogs than I do fish being farmed in overpopulated ponds. I also think it’s not a bad thing that children learn what happens to creatures that we eat rather than all the silly “raising chicks” lessons at school where the chicks are just sent back to the farm to be killed afterwards. I think most people in this country have no concept of how the cute fluffy animals in the petting farm becomes the plastic wrapped tray of mince in the supermarket and it’s good we learn a bit more.

100 % 🙄 It’s not hard to bash a crab and kill it. Christ almighty are we so removed from nature? Crabs and lobsters are boiled alive by the thousands daily for people to eat.

“Just buy it from a shop like a normal person”

Great. More kids growing up with detachment from nature. Just buy a plastic tub of bait. Just buy your shrink wrapped lamb from Tesco. Just buy a frozen box of fish fingers.

My grandfather had rabbits strung up in the house when I was growing up. He fished and crabbed. He had a freezer of lamb that he’d slaughtered himself. Kids don’t know enough of this stuff.

Is this a joke?

Quite

Where do hammers grow ‘in nature’?
If you think bashing a live animal with a hammer is ok you have no morals.