What age is ok to kill small animals?

[Barem]

Hi all,

I have a four year old son, and his father has taken him to his families cabin for the weekend.

They’ve taken some fishing nets as it’s close to the water, which I thought would be really sweet for my son to play with.

Yesterday his father told me that they’d caught a crab and he’d let my son kill it with a hammer to use as bait. I said I wasn’t too happy with this as I want him to enjoy learning about animals but not take enjoyment in killing them (at least this young).

Today he told me they’d caught a fish and killed it for the dogs to eat.

When I asked if they could catch it (it’s in a net not on a hook) and throw it back in he accused me of trying to ruin all their fun and put a downer on their day.

My son is meant to be back this morning but now father won’t tell me when he’s bringing him back.

What is everyone’s opinion on children killing animals yet? I’m a vegetarian so aware that I might be a bit more sensitive than others. But I’d have hoped that his father would at least consider/ respect my feelings on this?

It's natural. My kids all learn the reality of food from the start. The crab was bait, the fish was eaten. We fed ourselves by hunting for millennia, we get a buzz off it because its a successful evolutionary strategy, like cats get a buzz off playing with live mice/moths/dots on the floor.

Never ok? I assume you're veggie then.

If the kid isn't being raised as a vegetarian I'd say it's a difficult one. I'd want them to be older say 8 I think by then they have had chance to learn to respect nature and not go round bashing things for fun.

Moved to a village a few years ago, and I'm a Scout leader.

We have wild rabbits on our field. We can tell the "farm" children versus the "village" children by their reaction to the rabbits. The farm kids are completely fine by the 'management' of the rabbits which they see as pests not pets whereas the village ones were asking if we were getting the vet out for the injured ones and upset at bodies (the bodies are from foxes and prey birds killing them, not us!)

Point of this is... context is important. Killing animals for fun is not ok. Learning when food comes from is different. Fisherman often use live bait like maggots for example.

I’ve been vegetarian and now vegan (for decades) all my life. This is horrific. What sort of a lesson does that teach a small child?

Take a deep breath and stop with the hyperbole!

if you eat animals then the reality is they have to be killed.

The crab was killed for bait, the bait was used to fish, the fish was eaten. I’m struggling to see the issue.

These comments are wild!

I didn't realise so many people cared for animal welfare!

Using bait is a normal part of fishing. The fish, if eaten, also get bashed on the head.

Wait until you hear what they do to pigs, cows and chickens.

I thought this thread was going to be about shooting rats or trapping mice or worse. Not a dad taking his son fishing.

I think children need to know where food comes from, not just see it sanitised on a supermarket shelf. Not the most elegant way of killing a crab, but probably a very quick kill. And less gruesome using dead crab as bait than live worms impaled on hooks.

Killing animals just for fun? Never ok.

Killing them for food (either as bait or for humans or dogs to eat) is perfectly reasonable.

He's learning a useful life skill and understanding the reality of how we get meat and fish. You never know, it might turn him vegetarian one day 😉

I don’t think there’s an issue with it at any age so long as the animal is going to be cooked and eaten afterwards.

I wouldn’t be okay with a crab being smashed to death with a hammer though!

Wow. It's never OK.

The issue is a 4 year old has been allowed to do it. It’s a bit young don’t you think?

Wouldn't be OK for me but if it's your ex that's facilitating it doesn't sound like there's anything you can do about it. Except taking every opportunity on your time to point out cruelty when you see it.

Take it you are a veggie.

They’re not killing it for fun. They’re using it for bait for fish which will be eaten.
I have no idea on usual crab-killing technique. A hammer sounds more humane than, for example, boiling alive as is sometimes done with lobsters.

I think.this is fine. It has been for a legitimate purpose each time.

I assume you’re vegan and don’t eat or use any animal products then?

I don’t think four is too young - he was being supervised by his dad and was doing it for a legitimate reason.

Personally I would use frozen bait with a small child as it’s easier and less messy.

Obliterating life for fun is never okay. I'd be furious that my child was being taught this.

Is there a better way to kill a crab? I know it seems brutal and messy, but a hammer should a least be quick, especially if it’s only a little crab. Did his dad let him actually kill the crab or just help smash up the body for bait after making sure the crab was dead on the first strike?
I think it’s fine to take a four year fishing and for them to understand that we have to kill animals if we want to eat them or have a pet who needs to eat them. There should be an emphasis on killing them quickly, with as little pain and suffering as possible, for a known purpose (eg. Dinner, stocking the freezer for winter).

Wait for it op. People will be along soon to suggest if you're not vegan, then you have a nerve caring about animals in any capacity at all.

not sure why, probably something about being a hypocrite, as they drive off in their cars, watch the latest episode of their fave show on TV, and post on the latest devices rather than run old ones into the ground that are all made out of animal derivatives.....

(Said as an ex vegan who would like to stress that not all vegans are of the view that you shouldn't care because you eat meat)

Dawn. My dh took my ds fishing at that age and taught him catch and release which he still does now at 15. I'd have gone ballistic if dh let him hit a living creature with a hammer, not very humane is it.

That’s a bit of a stretch!

My son traps crayfish and kills then by driving a knife behind their eyes. We then eat them.

*he has researched this as being the most humane way to dispatch them, after they’ve had a snooze in the freezer first.

I’m pretty sure he’s not a psychopath.

Which you can get from all angling shops very easily, without the need to batter a crab with a hammer at 4 years old.

It's not great. But crabs and fish aren't animals as such. It sounds brutal for the crab but probably there quickest most humane way.

How is ds? My ds would be very upset by this. He already wants to be a veggie, he can't be due to various dietary constraints and gets so worried about the animals.