My four year old is aggressive and mean

[myangrychild]

That isn’t all he is; he can be lovely but increasingly I’m having to acknowledge to myself that this is a side of his personality and I am worried.

To give a full picture, he attends nursery for three days a week and they have no concerns at all. I’ve asked outright if they think there is any neurodivergence at play and they have said no; I’d agree with that. He has a lot of friends at nursery, gets invited to parties and children came to his. If we see children from nursery out and about they seem pleased to see him and respond positively.

But towards me, his sister (22 months) and other children out and about his behaviour can be really angry and mean. He gets very aggressive with me in particular, his face turning red and almost growling at me sometimes. This will be in response to really calm requests / instructions like going to the toilet or having a drink. Mostly the toilet. Potty training was a long struggle and he still has accidents now, mostly to be honest because he’s lazy and doesn’t bother to go.

His listening skills are just … terrible to be honest. It’s not hearing although he’s had a lot of problems with his ears so they’ve been extensively tested. But I’ll call his name and it’s like no one has spoken, he’s oblivious to me, it’s like the birds in the trees or traffic going by. A few days ago we were at the park and I said to him to stay in the playground and we’d go to the big slide later. Then he starts running towards the big slide. I’m calling his name to come back and he completely blanks me. It’s unbelievably frustrating.

He pushes and kicks other children in these sorts of environments. Not consistently but it has happened three times recently I can think of. Yesterday he shoved a little girl for absolutely no reason. When I pull him up he starts crying hysterically and claiming something like he’s hurt his finger which means any sort of restorative action is hard as he’s yelling the place down.

I’ve tried reading about it and a lot of books seem to assume you can have a conversation with the child which I can’t. He doesn’t seem to care about any consequence, or rather he does care but doesn’t stop him repeating the behaviour in future. And also I do have another child and I know it will be detrimental to their relationship as siblings if she’s constantly being taken away from nice activities because of his behaviour. He can be unkind to her as well, pushing her and kicking and slapping her when he thinks I’m not looking.

The fact none of this happens at nursery does make me concerned that he’s unhappy with me and it’s coming out like this. It also makes me feel powerless as a parent.

I have tried to have time with just him to try and improve our relationship as I do feel I’m just constantly telling him off. I’m also wondering if it’s just boredom, that he needs to be at school and / or I need to increase his time at nursery, but I’m not sure I can afford that. Or is it just a waiting game until he starts school in September? He finishes nursery at the end of July but August shouldn’t be too bad as his sister still goes three days a week and behaviour is much easier to manage one to one.

He's not lazy! He's little and he's struggling with impulse control and demands.
You just have to hang in there and stay calm and non judgemental and help him to learn.
It's a lot of patience but you have to just keep plugging away until he's calm enough.
For now avoid trigger points and try to reduce the demands. We try to stick to eating, toilet and bed time as the main demands when things are going off the rails, but sometimes that even goes down to bed time.
Take care, I'm sure it will improve!

Could it be the children at nursery? My DC goes to 2 different places and I notice his behaviour is considerably worse after he's been to one of the places, so I think he's getting it from some of the children there

Well - he can be lazy. He knows he needs to go and doesn’t. I appreciate yes we all ignore and put off going to the toilet, but it’s the anger really. I try to be clear about it, like ‘OK, we’ll finish this puzzle or TV programme but then you need to go for a wee. Finish it and he becomes furious, insisting over and over he’s been for a wee.

I hope it does improve as I have to admit at the moment I’m very worried about him.

I don’t think so @justmeandmyselfandi . I know the parents of the children he’s friendly with on passing terms and I don’t get the impression they are rough or mean, the opposite really. I took my youngest to a ballet event and a girl from nursery was there and ran up to DS saying his name in a happy tone and hugged him. So he does seem popular and accepted. Then at home or out and about he can be like a different child.

How did he react when his sister was born?

Badly, like a lot of children! He was jealous, he probably still is but to be honest he’s always been very physical with other children. It is much better than it was but still there.

It might just be something to watch. Ask him where he's heard that from etc. The nicer children are from the place where his bad behaviour comes from in my case. He says quite odd and mean things after he's been there (and nothing from the other place)

What do you do when he hits or pushes? Both out and at home?

I know it’s harder with two, but for bad behaviour out I’d find a corner (ideally a bench) and have a time in (hold the child tight and let them scream etc if they wanted) and not let them go until they were calm. Then I’d say, ‘we don’t hit. Well done for calming down’ and then back to playing.

You can keep an eye on another child while you do this, though obviously not in some situations (swimming!) so for those I would make sure to go with a friend.

Honestly I wouldn't rule out ND, my child masked at nursery and then at school (although it became more obvious the more expectations that were on them) and so we're shattered which exacerbated symptoms. They were awful at home, the anger only got worse, I couldn't cope - they were diagnosed ND last year when they were 9.

@ObstreperousCushion the thing is that whenever you try to talk to him, to get him to a bench or whatever he is yelling and wailing and dramatically shrieking that his finger hurts so any firm, unruffled sort of action is rendered pointless as he (and sometimes the other child / parent) can’t hear themselves think.

I have tried leaving but it’s hard because then his sister misses out and sometimes I can’t (once we were on holiday and DH dropped us at soft play because he had to go and pick up something so I couldn’t leave as no car and the other parent was shooting daggers at me.)

I think this is the issue - he doesn’t listen, he either starts wailing or he starts laughing and I know that a child laughing doesn’t mean they are finding it funny but still he isn’t engaging.

I genuinely don’t think it’s nursery. He’s always been very physical with other children, which obviously people are fairly tolerant of at 18 months - 2 and a half but beyond that people become less so. And it has improved: at one point I couldn’t take him anywhere! But still.

I am not necessarily ruling out ND but realistically he isn’t going to get a diagnosis so I have to kind of assume he isn’t if that makes sense.

It's difficult but try not to label him. Take each event as it comes, show surprise in your body language as though you don't expect it. Ask him what is wrong, rather than tell him he is wrong.
Try for a calm starting approach and humour if there are niggles first and give him words to express irritability - "I'm thirsty & tired, it's making me grumpy do we all feel like that and need a break?"
Nursery staff can be attuned to help diffuse/distract DCs so they may have ideas too.

I usually am surprised I think @Enough4me It doesn’t happen every time and I’ve tried to identify what the ‘triggers’ are but I’m not sure. He does suffer with his ears and I know that’s a trigger - but it isn’t just that by any means and this is what worries me, if I was able to say ‘oh ok, his ears are hurting and that’s why he’s like this’ I’d understand (obviously have to reinforce it’s not acceptable) but I can’t.

It does worry me. I worry he’s going to be a bit of a bully and unkind to other children and his sister habitually. He also can be really annoying - I know, he’s four! - but he’ll do annoying things more when he sense they are annoying, so the other day he kept standing in front of the TV, ask him nicely to move over and he does the ‘pretend he’s deaf’ thing and positions himself so he’s blocking it more.

It does affect our relationship as you can’t just ask nicely for him to do / not do something; everything is a battle.

I can only say what worked for me. I wouldn’t talk until he’s calm. Pick up, ignore screams, don’t say anything, put under arm like angry roll of carpet, find corner, hug tight avoiding positions where he can hurt you, wait in silence while keeping yourself calm (I used to count my breaths).

Just minimise stimulation and give him your silent, loving support to calm down. Then a very brief word not expecting response (like ‘we don’t hit’) and then back to whatever you were doing.

Oh that would massively exacerbate things - we’d end up pretty much fighting to be honest. And I obviously can’t ignore my other child while that goes on; it would end up a hopeless and desperate wrestle.

And - he is calm. He doesn’t lose it as such. He pushes or kicks when he’s calm and then when told off for it starts screaming and wailing but it’s put on (and you can tell!)

Just thinking about a couple of things in the post-

1. is the toilet. When my 5 year old DD hasn't been to the toilet she gets extremely aggressive. It will suddenly click with me she's not been to the toilet for a while, when she's gone she's a different person again. It's really strange, like Jeykll and Hyde. Have to say to her- right if I don't go to the loo right now I'll wet myself- she'll realise she has to go and run to get there first and all is calm for a while. 2- listening to instructions. This is really normal- I used to think by 4/5 they should be listening and obeying on the first try but it's not to be! Now I try asking three times. If not reacted to, I walk over and get on her eye level and touch her shoulder and repeat gently and 9/10 it's works! I used to shout, threaten but now I expect less, make a physical connection and I can't believe the difference. It's annoying but then I think how much more annoying&upsetting my childhood trauma is and it helps me. Obviously this does not work in roads but I've trained and drilled it into her from little to react immediately when I either shout stop/car or put my hand up in a stop sign. Janet Lansbury has helped a lot too- really good tips there.

I like Janet Lansbury too

It’s true about the toilet. I honestly am at a loss as to why he fights it so much. Sometimes I’ll tell him to go and he does. That’s easy if eg we’re going to the park (well, we can’t go until you’ve had a wee.) First thing in the morning is a nightmare, he lies and insists he’s been.

The listening thing I know is normal to a point … I just find it so hard as a lot of modern parenting is about talking to your child and making that connection and I feel like we’re rubbish at it!

My DC are older but their nursery taught me (through seeing them do it) about getting DC to listen before you speak. They'd say, "does everyone have their listening ears on" and they and the DCs would stop and look at each other. They would wait for attention first. The faster the children stopped the faster they could move back to play and some of the messages were about fun things (so they didn't know which ones to ignore!)

Why do they lie about it (toilet)!? Mine does this too!! Surely be easier to just go and be comfy but no!
Let's hope it gets easier soon x

I don't know if it will help, but read up on Pathological Demand Avoidance . A lot of the techniques for handling children with the syndrome are really useful for dealing with other behavioral issues. Your son is at the stage where he wants to make decisions for himself, so give him little ones to make - swing or slide first? He thinks he's got a bit of control that way, whereas you're really managing it all.

You can't reason with children at this age, they haven't got the cognitive skills as yet.

Sounds like my son at 4! He was awful, I literally become a hermit and wouldn’t go out without my husband present because he was worse when out. He started school and teachers make comment on what a kind and well loved boy he is (he’s now 7) he is now on ADHD pathway and still struggles with impulsiveness at times so I have always wondered if this is where his frustrations come from at that age.

It’s like sleep too!! They are literally falling asleep or having a tantrum because they are so tired but will not give in….i would be delighted at an early night 😂😂

Ah, so he does have a father! I wasn’t sure based on the OP.

How does he act with your husband? Does your husband use the same approaches with him?

He can still be on the spectrum. Remember that autism presents itself differently from person to person.

I also came here to say read up on Pathalogical Demand Avoidance. Not saying he has this but the strategies will help.