Play date and other parent

[IDontLikeMondays88]

my little one is 5. He gets on fine at nursery - no neuro diversity suspected.

we have however struggled with his behaviour at home over the last few months. I’d felt things were starting to get better but we had a play date at a park over the weekend which didn’t go well.

he was rude and stroppy from the get go, then despite reminders from me re behaviour pushed the two other children there for some perceived slight. At that point I said ok we are going home and took him home. He was very upset by this and it was a huge fuss.

one of the things I have noticed is that one of the mums has made a few wee comments about my sons behaviour over recent weeks. Like nothing you could really challenge her on but little seemingly innocuous comments with a sting. I don’t have any issue with saying to friends it’s been a struggle with him recently but this isn’t a frank conversation it’s wee sneaky comments.

while I do think my sons behaviour at the play date wasn’t good, I also noticed this mum picking my son up on his behaviour a few times. For example all of them were running about with sticks it’s my son who is told no sticks.

after we left one mum texted to say hope everything is ok which I thought was decent of her - but the other mum (the commenting mum) I have just had radio silence from.

AIBU just to take a big step back from this “friendship”. I totally get that my son’s behaviour wasn’t good and we are trying to address this. However I feel there is some judgement from her and also now an element of my son now getting blamed for everything. I actually don’t want to put my son in the position where he may do something (even something minor) and get labelled as the “bad one”. For example we are invited to some things this other boy and his mum will be at soon and I am honestly just thinking make an excuse not to go.

I've had the same with my son. He tends to be super lively and loves being physical. He's a kind, sweet boy but can struggle to regulate himself when he's over excited. I'm actively on it, working on his behaviour both at home and in public, but other parents of quieter children do see him as rough and a bit of a bully. Which is fair enough. If the roles were reversed I'd feel the same way.

But it isn't for want of trying (to improve his behaviour) and I'm always on it whenever I see it. I try to reassure myself that their parenting is often found wanting and that they're just showing favouritism and being very unself-aware even when their little darlings are acting in a less than appropriate way.

Ultimately, you don't really need to worry about other people/their kids. What you are focused on is raising your child to be the best person he can be and yes, a lot of that can be to socialise them to be reasonable boys/men. Other peoples kids aren't perfect either.

@AlmostSummer25 thanks for this.

the minute I said we were going home he got really really disregulated and upset - but I felt like I needed to follow through

just not sure what else I should have done as I did give him several warnings and that didn’t seem to work - he is totally in the moment and not really taking heed of me

I think it is important to follow through on things like leaving - it's horrible to see them upset, but it's a better strategy longer term for your child to know that you will enforce this and not just say it.

Overwhelmed. All children can get like that. Unfortunately at that stage you could just as well talk to the wall. When they're small enough to carry, they're fairly easy to remove but bigger children are more difficult. Reassuring noises can be helpful, but recriminations and 'I told you so's' far less so. The aim is to get dc to a quiet safe space, prefarrably with no observers (interferers! ). Don't waste time explaining yourself - it can really upset dc and divide your attention when you need it all for dc. ❤️

You absolutely did the right thing taking him home, even though you had to deal with the inevitable tantrum. I've done the same thing with mine when they were small. Children need to know that when you say something (a warning) you mean it and will follow through. You'll probably have a few more times when you'll have to do this but the penny will drop eventually. He is 5 and he is still learning this stuff. As long as you're calm and consistent, he will get there ☺️

I don't have any advice OP but I wanted to say that I've been in your position before so I sympathise!

I've found (through trial and error!) that going home if the play date isn't going well is a good idea - better to cut it short than to keep on going and hope it improves - which is unlikely if the child isn't in a sociable mood.

Hmm, from what I've seen kids behave better for people other than their parents

It will be her turn soon, her kid will be acting out and then she probably won't be so smug

Well yes!
I'd be calling him out as well if he was pushing my child about, especially if you're not parenting him or he's not listening and continuing to hurt my child.
Plus he clearly doesn't listen to you so maybe he'll listen to others!

But if you actually read what I said you will see that actually she was some distance away when my little boy pushed her little boy. I was the person who was watching all the children more closely and who intervened.

the things she picked my child up on were more minor offences for example my child called her child a silly variation on his name and got told “no name calling”. The sort of thing I am talking about is for example a child called Jamie and my son called him Jamie JoJo (being silly) which while not his actual name is hardly offensive.

anyway I think I am not going to give this more headspace and concentrate on my own kid. I am not going to suggest further play dates and will be avoiding certain of the wider events for my own sanity.

I have a "good" 4.5 year old who can really struggle with emotional regulation at times and is just explosive and can't be reasoned with. Nearly every time there's a reason. She struggled in the last month of nursery, the preschool room and upper 3 yo rooms had been merged to help children transition to preschool and there had been quite a drop in numbers for preschool as the term time kids had left and quite a few parents pulled their kids out of nursery for August holidays before starting school. My daughter is one that doesn't like being the oldest in the room and likes to have children slightly ahead of her so she can push herself. She just wasn't stimulated enough.

Once she started school she found the transition from school where she was probably over stimulated and had to do a lot of concentrating to being under stimulated and in the first half term there weren't a huge number of her classmates in the after-school club. It was a long first half term but after that she settled in and has been mostly fine except when there's been an incident in the day which are few and far between. When she is in one of those moods sometimes the only thing I can do is get her home as safely and with as much dignity as Ican manage. Once I'm home and she's calmed down we can have a more reasoned conversation. Recently we had an incident where she was literally climbing fences and clinging to lamp posts, she didn't want to go, she didn't want to stay put, she didn't know what she wanted. There was no talking or reasoning with her. I carried her home with her kicking and screaming like a possessed child. I wondered what the hell was going on. Once calmed she told me about something happening that resulted in her getting shut in the school whilst everyone was outside - mistimed loo break. She was soon found and taken outside but somehow until I pointed it out it was missed how scary that might have been for a 4yo! She's now been given ways to find teachers or to get to the playground. Really small things that wouldn't even register as a thing for an adult or older child can really play on the mind of a 4-5 yo and there can be a knock on to their emotions and behaviour

Re parenting other children I try to do it without singling out and individual person. So in the sticks situation if they were all playing with sticks and one was taking things a bit far I'd go over and say girls and boys can we be careful with the sticks we need to make sure we don't do xyz as someone could get hurt. If it continued I'd probably suggest an alternative no stick game. I see my place as a supervising parent as one to ensure play is safe and not to reprimand any individual child. There's usually a way of tweaking behaviour without singling out one person.

Interestingly I do think he is quite bored at nursery - he has said as much. He’s said that if one particular boy who he is really friendly with isn’t there it’s boring.

Children like sticks. Not sure why that is treated as such a problem? as long as they are gentle and don't hit each other.

I think you are sort of at cross purposes - her reaction seems too strong if you base it only on the times you are all together, which you are doing. However the chances are that her DS is coming back from nursery saying "DS was pushing again," "DS hit me today,' etc

There are kids that would put me on edge with a stick, which yours clearly is at this time, but she should have handled it better (are you fine with your DS and sticks and other kids)?

If you did want to remain friends you need to really think how you'd feel if one kid was hurting your kid, making play dates more stressful and the parent let said child run around with a stick. I doubt you'd be the best version of yourself, nobody likes worrying their kid will get hurt. Reassure her you are dealing with it, make sure DS apologised properly for pushing and brief him in advance next time re: expectations.

So nursery frequently tell me my son has had an “amazing day” “a great day” etc - as far as I know my son is not bothering hers at nursery 🤷🏼‍♀️
i have never been told that my son has hit or pushed another child at either of the nurseries he has attended - never in 4 years.
her son could well be reporting back something different but that is not what nursery are saying to me.

However I increasingly am thinking the friendship is just stressing me out when really I need to focus on my own child so I don’t think I will be pursuing it any more.

You can bold what you like.

No ND suspected at nursery does not mean there is no ND.

5 year olds are capable of masking.

OP - my honest opinion on a linked note…all children behave better when their parents aren’t there. I absolutely love that since my son has been in Reception and even more so Year 1, that he goes to play at a friend’s house without me, and similarly I collect a friend and bring them here without their parents. The behaviour of all the boys is drastically better. Try that 😊

i think I would be giving someone a wide berth if ‘Daniel, Mark and James’ all have a stick and my friend clearly states ‘Daniel, no sticks’ and says nothing to the others. It would be boys no sticks please or nothing. I wouldn’t arrange other joint ventures. If you can say you did everything you could to resolve the situation, then you did your best and don’t need a mate like that. I only ever had an issue when parents fobbed me off after their kids did something mean but would expect something entirely different if their child was on the receiving end!

Well I do think I tried my best 🤷🏼‍♀️
i warned him several times about various stuff.
i didn’t say about the sticks as they all had sticks

I kept close to them when playing. I went home with him when i felt it had crossed the line.

I kind of have realised while on this thread that I feel really quite stressed about his behaviour at home even tho we are getting good reports back from nursery. I need to think about how to feel less stressed and anxious about things and that might involve be stepping back from certain friendships. It might not even be anything really much to do with the other mum really but I need to do what I need to do.

If you have a lively child @IDontLikeMondays88 (I do too), I just have a no sticks rule (I actually have this specific rule, genuinely) because if he has one, at some point, someone will be hit. So, first sign of a stick, I take it away. He knows why. He has form in this area.

A lot of coping with a child like this is deflection or removal from the issue (he is no longer allowed to go to a specific place on Tuesdays because there are 2 boys that go there that LOVE to wind him up until he snaps and gets into trouble).

I think my son is improving as he gets older. He's not there yet, but hopefully will get there in the end. It takes a lot of management though.

Thanks @TheAmusedQuail for the practical advice.

i feel like there is a lot of managing him going on at the moment and it’s hard work. Much as he can be wonderful I am quite worn down with it at the moment.

the other mums little boy is much more chill I think and also very sensitive - like constantly at this mum complaining about something, even very minor things. Some of his complaints I just wouldn’t give air time to but she seems to take it all very seriously.

It may just not be a good match. both in terms of the two boys and parenting wise.

Also it is really interesting you saying about deflection as one of the only strategies that seems to work with him is redirection to something positive.

i actually snapped at my mum this morning as she was saying to “ignore” certain behaviour which we have tried and tried but doesn’t work. It just hypes up his behaviour even more 😅 - he does wilder and wilder stuff until we have to stop ignoring and step in.

If he’s continuing to behave in a certain way then that suggests he’s trying to get attention. If they don’t get positive attention then they’ll just accept the negative attention as a substitute. That doesn’t mean you instantly do what he wants etc (he’s got to learn to wait, what is acceptable etc) but if you ignore it he will keep doing it until you snap and then he’s got his attention fix.

If you don’t control the interaction then an antagonistic moment is created either through ignoring until it escalates or with you continually telling him to stop doing something until you have to escalate. If you give a 5 year old the chance to butt heads with you, the majority will go “Challenge accepted” and then you find yourself trying to win with an opponent who has zero control or inhibitions.

Pick your battles. Make sure that your are 100% going to “win” ie if he needs to put his shoes on before going to the park then if he doesn’t put his shoes on he doesn’t go to the park. Countdowns can help with independent children as they aren’t going to something immediately and it gives them a semblance of control. When mine were younger I chose some non-vital leaving the house moments so if they didn’t put their shoes on when asked I could not go out ie you don’t do it on the way to nursery. Mine realised quickly that the consequence of their actions meant they didn’t get to go out.

Think ahead and plan. If he winds you up, be aware of that and take a breath before saying something. I always give mine the chance to fix the wrong behaviour so they’re not always feeling put upon and that life isn’t fair.

Deflection is a great technique as is telling what to do rather than what not to do eg instead of “Don’t throw the ball inside” try “Let’s take the ball outside and see how many times you can throw it in the bucket”.

What was he repeatedly doing that ignoring didn’t work with? I’ve never found ignoring works unless it’s really low level stuff.

Yes he really seems to want pretty much constant attention from me and my husband. He does get a lot of attention - he’s an only child.
that said he is at nursery 4 days a week so away from us a lot.
for example on Monday he and I played several rounds of board games and we then did a big painting - got loads of cool paints and printing stuff out and did that. Then he asked to go outside so I let him and took the opportunity to make myself a tea. Because he didn’t have my full attention seemingly he took my washing pole down so that my washing was then all over the garden.
it’s just really hard as he absolutely gets loads of attention from us. But I can’t make myself a cup of tea without something disruptive happening some days!
At the moment I have really culled any social stuff and really don’t do much apart from work and parent - feel it’s a grind and that we have a few good days and then there is some sort of incident with him. My dad also has dementia so there are other things that also need my attention at times!

Another thing he does a lot is speak in a silly baby voice. So wake up and immediately start speaking in a silly baby voice. Or come home from nursery and be speaking in a silly baby voice.
mu husband thinks this is a combination of something that children just will do and deliberately trying to annoy us and get attention but you do start to wonder.