When to leave 3.5 yo to play independently

[Blueowlnight]

I have 3.5 yo and 8mo. My eldest is quite used to being entertained or interacting with us, either playing games together or her being around and chatting or helping while we do household chores.

Today, we wondered whether we might be at a stage where we can do our own leisurely things with her in the room, but not actively entertaining her. While littlest napped on my partner, I told eldest I was going to do some embroidery. We were all together in the same room, and I said she could watch me and I would talk through what I was doing.

Fine for a minute or two but ultimately her response to boredom is to get disruptive, low level kicking me, pushing in to me “lovingly”, pulling apart my threads etc. I asked for some space and she kept pushing, so I got up and sat at the table (still same room). Then she proceeded to crunch cereal all over the room and take off the sofa cushions. I let her, thinking this is just her experimenting in response to boredom, and just said that we’d tidy it up together after. But then she started to try and wake up littlest and it all just gets a bit stressful from there.

Is she just too young for us to do our own thing? Were we being selfish? When can yours play independently? She had lots of open ended toys like tiles, beads, role play stuff, all available in the same room.

My DD is 16 months and she’ll keep herself busy for a few minutes.

I have tried doing embroidery with her around which she tried to get involved in but obviously doesn’t understand that her behaviour is disruptive as she’s a baby.

At three I’d be dishing up punishments for deliberately being disruptive.

Does she have any of her own crafts she could be doing at the same time?

‘If you don’t want to watch Mummy do her crafts you can play with your toys/do some drawing… If you’re not going to behave we won’t be going to the park later/you’ll have to have a think about your behaviour on the step’

It's very little to do with age and more what she has grown up expecting. My DD played independently from 18 months, I could sit in the lounge and sew or read or watch my TV and she would play with her toys. You say yourself she is used to being entertained by you whereas this has never been the case for my kids. You need to re-teach her and change her expectations. Also there needs to be consequences for the kicking and making a mess on purpose

You aren’t being selfish but she is being naughty. In our house that behaviour would result in timeout.

I wouldn't tolerate any kicking, shoving into me when I didn't want it, ruining what I'm doing or making a mess with food outside a messy play session. DD age 3 knows this as I've always expected the same and promptly corrected her behaviour. As for entertaining herself she can do it for short periods but it depends on how interesting she finds her toys. I find it helps to cycle round what we have in the lounge and if I want more peace change the toys for ones she's not seen for a while. We don't send her to her room to play but she does sometimes go there voluntarily. She's allowed an hour of TV a day so that's a good hour to get stuff done. If you're doing embroidery you could get her some threading toys like the boards or cotton reals or buttons so she can do something similar with you.

I think being able to play independently is a skill and needs to be built up over time. You may be able to just start with just five minutes but then build up to longer, and may need to “teach” it if it doesn’t come naturally to your child.

I think ability to play independently is largely personality driven. Some kids are self sufficient, not overly emotional and more introverted and will happily get lost in free play. Some kids are less self sufficient, more emotional and more extroverted and want lots of interaction.

I have two DC, largely parented the same. One is good at doing his own thing. One is extremely bad at it. We’re further on than you and the ‘bad’ one will still revert to silliness/being disruptive if he doesn’t know what to do with himself. The silliness isn’t tolerated, but it does mean doing our own thing is pretty limited as we obviously need to parent him in these moments. At the moment we are aiming for 10 minutes of independent play. If he gets through it, he gets positive attention. If he doesn’t, the timer gets stopped and restarted. We are literally having to train him to entertain himself, which a lot of kids won’t require, but a fair amount do.

However, despite all of that, I think you set yourself up to fail today. I wouldn’t expect any 3 year old to be interested in embroidery for more than a minute or 2. I would have set her up with a proper activity, like some painting or colouring or a tuff tray and ensured she was engrossed in it, before getting out embroidery. Give yourself a fighting chance first, she is only small after all.

@Blueowlnight you wrote “get disruptive, low level kicking me, pushing in to me “lovingly”, pulling apart my threads etc. I asked for some space and she kept pushing, so I got up and sat at the table (still same room). Then she proceeded to crunch cereal all over the room and take off the sofa cushions. I let her,”. Op, you let a child kick you repeatedly and crunch cereal all over the floor whilst you let her? I do understand some parents are more permissive than others but this is ridiculous….I would expect the average 3. 5 yr old to not have to be constantly entertained in all situations but tbh the problem is wider than this, why would you tolerate a child kicking you and throwing cereal on this floor?

I think mine were far far younger when they were playing in their bedrooms independently tbh. Possible vein of ND in my family though. So lining up peppa pigs for hours or spending 2 hours getting dressed 'my do it' from around 1 I think.

Given you have an 8 month old, how is she not completely used to playing independently? What has she been doing whilst you feed/change nappy/make purées/get baby to sleep etc all this time?

I think her (naughty) behaviour is possibly a result of what sounds like being completely babied her whole life.

I find that both mine will play independently if I’m doing housework or preparing the dinner but become disruptive if I sit down and try to read or something. Sigh.

Mine is 2 and will play independently for short periods of time. Has done since about 18 months or so.

3.5 is more than old enough.

@VivaVivaa these are some really good ideas, both in terms of training her up and setting up the activity alongside.

I honestly can’t think of a time I have done anything for my own entertainment with her around (except for meeting friends but they usually have a kid as well or we bring toys etc). We’ve never watched our own tv with her, read, tried to do own crafts, exercised, diy etc. I always felt like I couldn’t expect her to be left for my own reasons, like maybe I was being selfish? But it sounds like lots of other people do manage this? Perhaps we have babied her.

also, in her defence, the low level kicking was her just sat next to me very closely and sort of lightly kicking her legs towards me, rather than with intention to hurt? Her consequence was I moved, and her consequence for crunching cereal was to tidy it up.

Mine plays independently for short times but I have to help shift her focus onto her play first if she wasn’t already really engaged with something herself.

Eg start playing with her and then say something like “mummy’s going to make a cup of tea, I’ll be back in a minute” or just quietly get up and drift off without drawing attention to it.

If I did what you did, basically announce I was going to do something fun on my own that she couldn’t access, mine wouldn’t manage either. And would start attention seeking like yours did. I’d have to suggest things for them to do that I know they enjoy.

Mine played in their rooms for an hour or so in the afternoons when they were little. They didn't nap so it was their chill time and my chill time. They had things to do and they had a big bedroom. They didn't have screen during this time.
I did it because I needed some time for myself as I had 4 kids 5 and under and I also thought it was good for the kids. What I was trying to avoid was having kids who couldn't entertain themselves.

They knew I would happily give them my attention at other times.
I didn't even pretend I was busy to them. I told them I wanted some time for myself.

Obviously it didn't always work well but mostly it did. My kids were always good at making their own entertainment and it meant they were good at playing together. I don't think it suits all kids though.

I honestly can’t think of a time I have done anything for my own entertainment with her around (except for meeting friends but they usually have a kid as well or we bring toys etc). We’ve never watched our own tv with her, read, tried to do own crafts, exercised, diy etc. I always felt like I couldn’t expect her to be left for my own reasons, like maybe I was being selfish? But it sounds like lots of other people do manage this? Perhaps we have babied her

I wouldn’t beat yourself up. I suspect you are probably subconsciously responding to her personality. DC2 is only a toddler but I don’t have to try. He will just happily start emptying draws or getting out his duplo or looking at books without any input from me. It obviously doesn’t last long, but I can already see he will be the sort of child who will happily play for 20 minutes independently while I cook tea. This is something DC1 never, ever did. He has always wanted 100% focus and attention from his caregiver.

Start really small. Set her up with something age appropriate and interesting and then back off for a few minutes and see how she reacts. If she asks where you are going, go and make a cup of tea, say you will come back and then come back. Repeat over and over, gradually increasing the time, but always coming back. Praise what she has done while you have been gone.

The thing you don’t want to do is make ‘independent play’ a chore or a punishment. It needs to just be subconsciously built into the day little and often, or she will resist harder. Good luck!

I wouldn’t be able to do those things really @Blueowlnight .

@Blueowlnight I’m perplexed as to how you think those are consequences for a 3.5 yr old? Did you actually speak to her and give her a warning for her behaviour? She’s not a mind reader. You are not giving her any expectations . Depending on her birth date this is a child who will be starting SCHOOL in September ….you are treating her like a toddler.

Got my mum staying at the moment. Just asked her. She reckons (and she might be exaggerating but isn't prone to) that her and her siblings were kicked outside from the age of 3 onwards and told to come home for lunchtime. Then again, and 'before dark for dinner'. She says they went down to the river to play. 50s.

Today, we wondered whether we might be at a stage where we can do our own leisurely things with her in the room, but not actively entertaining her

You've never done it before so she doesn't know what on earth you're doing. She's used to you entertaining her constantly. I can't be bothered with that and my 3 and a half year old is well used to us doing what we want when we want. If I want to read a book, I will. He goes off to play with his toys. I'm not spending my entire weekend entertaining him. He certainly wouldn't ever dare "low level" kick me.

We build train tracks and structures with his Duplo, we play board games, we bake, we go out and about together, we draw, we read books... but when I want to either get things done around the house or have a rest and a cup of tea while I do my own thing, of course he plays by himself.

Mine have been happy to play independently more or less from babies, with the time increasing. But tbh even at 6 and 4 the only way I'd be able to sit down for something like embroidery would be to use the TV.

I think they understand quite early that you can't play because you're cooking the dinner or putting the laundry away, but expecting them to just leave you be for a hobby will probably be much harder for quite a while.

I would have kept specific toys for those times. So playdough would be on a higher shelf, for example, and we would take it out at the table and she would play alone with that while l did my thing. Afterwards we would tidy it away together so some stuff was never just there. I am a parent of older dc and at that time we were told a little bit of healthy neglect is a good thing as it makes them more independent. Mine never played in their rooms until they had play dates after school so they played on the floor with cars/ trucks farms etc or did crafts at the table. Or set up little words with playmobile etc. Most toys l choose had a good play element so it kept them busy. Aim for small sessions now and let it grow. Maybe look up online for ideas of activities that age can do alone. Look at play times in the early school years and see how the dc are expected to play while teacher works with another group. You will get ideas there.

Be very careful on this one OP. If you are constantly entertaining and with your kid playing they won’t learn to play on their own, understand boredom or be a self starter.

I have a friend who did this with her kid and they never learned to play on their own and couldn’t play or start anything themselves. Imagination and boredom are important lessons.

Thank you all for the messages. I think I felt really conflicted and just you don’t know what’s the right thing when you start parenting. I wasn’t sure if it was fair to expect her to play so just never did, but I think actually this is a good time to start training her to play alone for a bit.

Really appreciate the ideas to get started with helping her learn ☺️

@BarbaraHoward

I think they understand quite early that you can't play because you're cooking the dinner or putting the laundry away, but expecting them to just leave you be for a hobby will probably be much harder for quite a while.

I disagree. I think young kids can be understanding that their Mums sometimes want time to do something for themselves on their own. I used to sit down and read for an hour while the kids played upstairs. I wasnt wasting that time doing chores.

It's a bit like when I wanted to go somewhere that I knew wouldn't be their first choice, for example, if I wanted a quick Look around an art gallery. They were far happier to do it if I told them that I really wanted to go rather than me trying to pretend to them that it was for their benefit. They were happy to do something for me.
Obviously I was happy to mostly do more kid friendly things but there's nothing wrong with them doing things for you sometimes too.