Conflicted on raising my voice

[JonMa]

My DS is still very little, 20 months, but of course of the age where he needs some boundaries.

He'll do things he's not meant to, like trying to pull shelves down or throw things behind the radiator.

If I say no, he'll look at me and smile, then carry on with what he's doing. I'll say it sternly, and with meaning, and he pays no attention. I've tried praising him lots when he stops doing the things he shouldn't, but it has no impact, and he'll just do it again when he fancies.

Yesterday I basically shouted his name, very firmly, and he stopped what he was doing. Great. But I never wanted to be a shouty parent. I didn't shout because I lost my patience, I made a choice to see if it would work, and it did.

It feels almost wrong to shout at him as he's so young, but it's the only thing he'll respond to. I don't know if I'm being too precious about this, or if it's the opposite and I'm being a terrible mother.

I need some perspective!

I think you probably just mean tone of voice rather than shouting?? IMO it's the tone of voice that makes them stop and listen - shouting is pointless. You should have different tones of voice so your lo knows when you mean business otherwise if everything is said in the same tone how are they meant to distinguish when they need to act immediately?

The shouting worked that time because it was unusual. If you do it a lot he will just tune it out. Distraction is more effective at that age.

I think I've only ever shouted for safety reasons (child bimbling towards a road or something). Then it is effective because it's rare.

In that case, when he ignores the first/second no, have you tried getting down to his level, and looking him in his eyes to engage him? Then saying something like "(insert child's name), you know when Mummy says no, because (insert very simplified reason), you need to stop, okay? If you stop, when Mummy says no, you'll get a sticker." Then a hug, and keep repeating this each time. If he does it first time, make a huge fuss and a chocolate button, or sticker. You'll soon see if it works.

Of course he stopped when you said his name because that’s what he’s called, he’s not called darling ffs, that’s why he didn’t listen to you!!

I agree with distraction but it seems other posters do not!

Yes I've honestly tried it all. I wouldn't have resorted to raising my voice if other things worked. Our radiators reach a really, really high temperature and I get so worried about him burning himself.

Children, who would have 'em!?

@Heyhiho I have never really shouted at my kids because I don't feel the need and I literally know it produces nothing of value. It's not because I'm a wet parent who believes in 'gentle' parenting and letting my kids freely do what the fuck they like

My personality is just that I've found it easier to be firm without yelling. I always judge parents shouting at children, with the exceptions being danger of course

Over something dangerous like this, it requires a firm and urgent raised voice op; this is unquestionable. Safety comes first. I was alluding to more minor things.

‘Darling please stop that. It's hot. We don't do that. Come and play with this.’ - he’s not going to understand half of that at only 20 months old, especially not when preceded by ‘darling’ because that isn’t his name. He will understand his name being said firmly in a raised voice. Find the middle ground. Nothing wrong with a sharp ‘Oscar’ to get his attention and make sure he stops then I would redirect him towards more appropriate play.

Indeed. My toddler loves twisting the washing machine knob (i haven't figured out the child lock) and it resets and costs me so much electricity. All financial burden is on me alone. I tried to move him a million times. Say no a million times. Distract a million times. Nothing worked and i cant afford to have a machine running on constant unnecessary cycles and potentially ruining clothes in the process. But nothing worked, until i shouted. As a conscious decision rather than anger (i also threatened to send him up the chimneys to pay the electricity but that didnt work either 😂)
But it worked. When nothing else would. Same for messing with wires and sockets. I WANT him scared to do that. Its safeguarding. Or hot items and so on. So now and then i weigh up, and choose my rare shouty moment lines in the sand. We are not a shouty household. But sometimes it's needed. Often he thinks it's a game but if something happens that is no longer fun, ie mummy is cross, he sees the consequences and stops or does it less. Because its no longer fun. Im not sorry, ill parent how i see fit and my child is happy and doing well as all the professionals tell me, hes a happy little boy, secure confident and curious. Hardly the signs of a frightened scared boy cos mummy shouts now amd and then.

I know that REAL fear when youre unsafe, raised in a violent loud household and constantly terrified. Being a child and unable to defend or escape. I used to make dens out of the smallest places i could find, like the wardrobe, and read in them as i felt safe. Do NOT minimise real children in real dangerous and fearful situations by equating them with a mummy who loves and cares and keeps them safe but occasionally shouts. Its fucking offensive

No one wants to be a shouty parent!
Parenting is a process of elimination, what works for some won't necessarily work for others.

@NikKai thanks so much for saying this. I had a very shouty/tempermental dad and absolutely didn't want my son to grow up that way, but I too have learned sometimes a raised voice is necessary. My son can get very, very focused on what he's doing and distraction just doesn't work with him, and if you try to move him it just causes a tantrum.

There is no correct formula for parenting, all our children are different and some are going to require different approaches.

I agree. Mine is the same, determined and gets hyper focused, then any attempt to move him results in all his limbs turning into water (how do they do that? Turn eel like, slippery and impossible to hold? Haha) and then a short lived but huge tantrum. He doesnt understand why mummy is stopping his play. Whereas a short sharp "full namer" shout and angry face diverts his mind to "ok this isn't a fun game, all signs point to not doing this now", its how they learn boundaries and ironically, its rules and clear BOUNDARIES that make children feel safe. Whichever way you have to assert those for your particular child.

I too was determined to not be a shouty parent for similar reasons to you. And i occasionally do shout, but i dont class our home as a shouty home because shouting is used as a rare and last resort boundary reset when all else fails.

I will also NEVER ask my child to "dont do that please" "dont hit mummy please" "lets make better choices please". No chance. That's too much unfair pressure on a child. I TELL him calmly but firmly "NO, we do NOT hit in this house" "no, we do not do that" etc. I make the choices and my requests are absolute, until he is old enough to have the capacity to accept and work well with the responsibility of requests such as make better choices etc. I am the parent. I am here to keep him safe, teach him life, create a good person to set free into society.

Tell me, when was the last time an adult requested another adult to make better choices, or to "please dont hit it isnt nice"? Start as you mean to go on.

Be kind. Love them. Praise everything they do, everything. Keep them safe and secure and loved through calm consistency and the odd name shout will not raise a terrified traumatised child. Quite the opposite

No one went into parenthood hoping to be a shouty mum.

My kids are pretty well behaved, but sometimes they do not listen, and then yes, I raise my voice. To shout their names, to shout stop, wait, etc, and especially when they are in danger.

I'd never shout unkind things, call them names or insult them. That's where I draw the line.

I've literally never met a parent who doesn't raise their voice occasionally.

I'm not shouty, physically removed them. Short sharp sentences coupled with a Stop hand gesture, then move furniture S he can't get to the hot radiator, get a guard or turn it off.

I had radiator covers when DD was little that solves that particular problem.

See this is where we will differ. I considered radiator guards, but ultimately it's not feasible in our house, and it's freezing so they need to be on. Ultimately he has to learn he can't touch it. I firmly believe we need to teach children important, basic things, and not to touch hot things is one of them. Whether that's through being stern or other methods.

What will happen when he's out at someone else's house and they have radiators?

@JonMa
But he will learn but at the moment is still very young, even another 6 months will make a difference. Upto three it's really a case of keeping on top of what he's doing, high level supervision and child proofing and being 'on it's when visiting other places.

This makes a lot of sense. He is changing so much month by month. I can imagine in 6 months he'll be a lot more aware.

There's a difference between raising your voice a little and shouting. The problem is that if you start shouting every time he does something wrong the impact will be lost over time and he will soon no longer give a shit if you're screaming at the top of your lungs. IMO it's best to save shouting for something serious - running out in a road, about to pull the tv over etc. Times when you need to be able to have that impact.

I think in this scenario I would have physically picked up my 20 month old and moved her across the room. Repeat if she went back. If she had a tantrum about that I would have kept calm and stated a simple phrase like "It is hot. Mummy has to keep you safe" and just ridden out the tantrum. We had a similar thing with the kettle a couple of months ago but now she just points to it and says "hot!" so she has learnt.

Anecdotally, as a secondary school teacher, all my worst behaved students seem to have shouty parents. I think if you get into a habit of shouting/raised voices the kids just tune it out and become desensitised to it, meaning it won't be powerful in a dangerous scenario where you need them to listen.

Very interesting re kids behaviour and shouty parents. I'm not surprised.

Believe me, I moved him away numerous times. Over and over again. We've got radiators in every room (naturally) and he gravitates towards them constantly. This has been an ongoing battle since he became mobile!

This time next year it won't be an issue.

I highly recommend looking into signing with him. It is far more effective than just spoken instructions. Saying 'Oscar' to get his attention then saying and Signing 'stop', 'hot' and 'pain'. Instead of "Darling please stop that. It's hot. We don't do that. Come and play with this."