Conflicted on raising my voice

[JonMa]

My DS is still very little, 20 months, but of course of the age where he needs some boundaries.

He'll do things he's not meant to, like trying to pull shelves down or throw things behind the radiator.

If I say no, he'll look at me and smile, then carry on with what he's doing. I'll say it sternly, and with meaning, and he pays no attention. I've tried praising him lots when he stops doing the things he shouldn't, but it has no impact, and he'll just do it again when he fancies.

Yesterday I basically shouted his name, very firmly, and he stopped what he was doing. Great. But I never wanted to be a shouty parent. I didn't shout because I lost my patience, I made a choice to see if it would work, and it did.

It feels almost wrong to shout at him as he's so young, but it's the only thing he'll respond to. I don't know if I'm being too precious about this, or if it's the opposite and I'm being a terrible mother.

I need some perspective!

I've been a parent for 26 years in total so far and can count on two hands the amount of times I've shouted!

I wouldn't be making conscious decisions to shout. He's a baby. Just remove him, distract him etc, say 'no, don't touch that please and offer something else / pick him up / give him a toy. Whatever

And prepare to repeat this half a million times over the years

My DD is also 20 months and I plan to parent just like you! I go with the distraction technique eg so I say “please don’t climb out of your high chair and here’s some teddys and toys to play with whilst sitting!” As she’s just little and doesn’t understand shouting.

@AthleteW just prepare to strap in tight - as I wearily said to my 18 year old son ' oi! We do not kick a football about in the kitchen please!' as it missed the spaghetti bolognaise on the oven top by millimetres 😬😀

All good fun!

Well why did you not want to be a shouty parent?

I think you need to reflect on those reasons and decide whether they've changed as a result of your son's response.

Of course children will behave if they are scared, but is that really what we want?

I would rather have a confident child who is a bit of a tearaway than a well behaved, but frightened child.

I think the previous comments are well meaning but I don't agree.

In the real world, sometimes we raise our voices. You say you just shouted his name and he stopped. You weren't shouting at him continuously or berating him.

Only on MN is it not right to raise your voice when saying a child's name to get them to stop something.

This is why we have issues with children today. Not enough firm patenting. Children running riot and parents half heartedly asking them to stop.

It begins now. Toddlers need boundaries. Without them they cannot develop properly. All toddlers are different. Some may respond to a more gentle approach and be distracted easily. If you're isn't, then of course it's ok to be a little more firm. This is how they'll learn.

😂😂 I am laughing because my DD (20m) just last night took the ball into the kitchen and then tried to throw it into the bin! And then shouted “boh bin” (ball bin 😂)

@Heyhiho There are ways to instil boundaries and be firm with children without shouting at them.

I don't expect people to shout at me if they want me to do something, and I wouldn't expect my child to be shouted at, either.

Again, op wasn't shouting at him. She shouted his name, he stopped. To say she was shouting at home evokes an imagine of a mother giving a baby a royal telling off. She said his name loudly and firmly and he stopped. I'm failing to understand how anyone can think that's not acceptable.

I totally agree. If my boss shouted at me because I sent the wrong file to print etc I wouldn’t be happy! So why should my daughter learn shouting is normal!

Presumably your boss can communicate to you that you're doing something wrong in other ways though? That's the difference here. If we could just explain to toddlers that what they're doing is dangerous then of course that's what we'd all do. Unfortunately they don't quite understand yet and they won't for a good few years.

I've been a raised voice parent for a time in the past, against my own values and during a couple of years when i was struggling to cope due to a difficult life situation, and also because I was confused about whether my parenting ideas were right and influenced by how I was parented. It's caused problems, OP, and I wouldn't recommend it. I'm spending time undoing the damage now. Save the raised voice for when it's really needed would be my perspective.

"It feels almost wrong to shout at him as he's so young"

OP used the word "shouted" a fair few times in her post so unless you were there I'll take her at her word? She is obviously feeling bad about it and didn't really want to parent this way. There are other methods which will work just as well.

Thanks for all the comments so far. To clarify, I literally just shouted his name. That got his attention and he stopped. I want to make it absolutely clear I wasn't just sitting there shouting at my toddler!

Scenario:

Toddler throwing plastic toys behind hot radiator.

Me: Darling please stop that. It's hot. We don't do that. Come and play with this.

Toddler continues even when moved away and distracted.

Me: OSCAR!

Toddler looks at me and stops. Starts playing with toys in middle of the room.

It's fine OP but it's your active decision about how you want to parent. You are not a bad parent for doing this and lots of parents do it this way.

But if you decided previously that you didn't ever want to raise your voice/ shout (for whatever reason) - then you just need to reflect on what changed and why?

If you don't want to do it this way then you don't have to - there are other ways which will work.

Thanks for this. Thinking about it, it's changed because he doesn't respond otherwise.

For example, he was throwing toys at his baby cousin last week and no amount of distraction or reasoning was getting him to stop! I think this past week I've been thinking about that a lot, and coming to the conclusion that maybe my strong willed baby needs to be told things more firmly. I worry he'll just be completely feral otherwise, and I owe it to him to make sure he learns some boundaries.

I'm still conflicted thigh, hence this thread!

With distraction - we try offering multiple multiple options. Although I’m sure someone on mumsnet will say that’s a bad way to parent 😂! So offer them a teddy and then a snack and then a puzzle and then colouring and then I’d lift them up and dance and then some Lego etc. so multiple options!

Agree . I never shouted AT my children but I certainly shouted their names on occasions. All were great teenagers and really great adults……definitely not scared of their Mother .

@JonMa That makes sense and is why the majority of parents who shout/ raise their voices at their children do so. They resort to it as they feel it's the only way, the most effective way, and that their child needs boundaries.

It can have consequences, e.g. child being scared, child shouting back when they get older, etc. It may only work when he is very little and then you will still have the behaviour difficulties on your hands when he gets older, and what will you do then? Raise your voice more? One way ticket to a sore throat probably!

You know your child better than anyone, but I think in your position and at 20 months, I would simply keep leading him away from the radiator every time he goes, telling him don't to do that, the radiator is hot, and keep distracting every time, as @AthleteW says.

You don't plead/ reason with young children, you tell them and then you remove them from the situation. That doesn't mean you have to shout, though.

It's bloody hard work and exhausting, and shouting is an easier option, and yes it works because it does instil fear and shock.

It's up to you how you want to do it, the dilemma is part of parenting and no one will say you are a bad parent either way. There is also a lot of advice on here if you search the forums about different ways to cope with children's behaviour.

If a child was throwing toys at my child and their parent just offered them loads of things to (eventually) get them to stop I would be appalled. Imagine what that teaches a small child and how uncontaining that must be!

I have definitely raised my voice at times and wish I never got to that point, so I’m not an advocate of shouting by any means. However when I am on my best parenting behaviour I would immediately physically intervene with my child. I would say I’m not going to let you throw toys at X, and would hold his arms or pick him up. I wouldn’t be rough or punitive, but firm and authoritative, and then move on as soon as it’s over, never hold a grudge.

No need to shout, but also making it clear that you will intervene appropriately to keep your child - and others! - safe.

Apologies I meant I would do that in the situation of the radiator. In the instance of throwing toys and the babies safety I would say not to do that and if they didn’t I’d scoop them up and carry them somewhere away from the baby and somewhere else to distract them. Sorry I didn’t express myself properly!

Sometimes you have to raise your voice and they need to know what that voice is and how it means business. This is not the same as shouting in anger.

If your son is pulling shelves down he might get seriously hurt. Tell him firmly no and move him on to something else. That's fine. But you've just discovered that sometimes a raised voice and sharper "no!" is required. It will set you in good stead when he's just about to do something dangerous out of your reach. My 3 year old still has occasional bungling moments and by god if I shout his name in a certain tone does it stop him in his tracks. But there's no anger and we move on again quickly after I remind him why x y or z is dangerous.

You know in your own heart what is a raised voice when necessary and what is too much so don't overthink it. Labelling all "shouting" as the same just means you'll feel guilty and beat yourself up over nothing.

I agree in that there is a balance. There is a dm at my dcs school, whose dc walks all over; negative attention is better than none. Her ds will fly on a scooter almost knocking little kids over, run at other dcs and shout at them, shove (with their parent/s there), meaning they're left to deal with somebody else's child's behaviour. The Mother just strolls behind smiling in her own world, doting on the youngest. Then if he does something extra negative like crashing into a nother dc (that she happens to see), she'll call his name in a really lack lustre way.

Op, if your dc isn't answering to his name, it makes me think of my ND child. Does he show any other traits? I know with my NT dc this was never an issue, but with dc1, it took forever to gain his attention. The only thing that breaks it, is to shout a random word of something he is really interested in. He doesn't do it on purpose; he is just oblivious.

I have also resorted to distraction at times, I’m not above that. But again I feel the radiator is a safety issue in which case I’d be advocating:
“come away from the radiator please sweetie it’s hot and it’s not safe.” Assuming he ignores me, I’d follow up with “I’m moving you away now because I need to keep you safe and I don’t want you to be hurt” whilst picking up and moving the child.

I often think that distraction doesn’t teach the skills that children need to manage feelings of distress, frustration, disappointment, boredom etc. instead of learning to sit with tricky feelings, they learn that when tricky feelings come along you have to get rid of them as quickly as possible. I don’t think that is helpful in the long term.

Yes, I agree with this. When it is something imminently dangerous, a raised urgent voice is completely necessary. Safety comes before anything else in that moment.

He does respond when I call his name, he will look over and smile. He'll just ignore the 'no' part of what I'm saying 🤦