How to parent a four year old

[Busby88]

Feeling like I’ve done a terrible job of parenting our four year old and just looking for some advice on how to turn things around or reassurance that I’m not completely ruining him.

He has always been a kind, loving and helpful boy. No terrible twos, no temper tantrums, thought we were nailing parenting. He turned three and got a bit more difficult but he had a baby brother arrive just as he turned three so that was understandable. But since he has turned four he has been such such hard work, even more so since starting school.

He can still be loving and kind, but he is also downright naughty. Tonight is just an example. He has thrown food across the room, upended his plate, called everyone horrible names (seems to be learnt from school) and just generally made a mess of the place/ thrown things everywhere. I removed his food and then said I’d take away a new toy for a day if he continued, he genuinely couldn’t care less and carried on. Tried to take him upstairs for time out (we set a timer and sit with him up there, trying to calm him) but he’s lashing out kicking and hitting. In the end I left him in the room alone, he started crying and I then went in and hugged him until he’d calmed down and talked it through, but obviously I can’t physically always just do that as often he will open the door and run out or just destroy the room.

I just don’t know whether any of this is the right approach. We’ve always tried to practice gentle parenting but he’s always been very good and sticking to boundaries until now. We’re trying to have short term relatable consequences but it doesn’t always seem possible or if it is I am just clearly not thinking of the right ones. I am also not an angel and have resorted to shouting at him in the past, usually when tired, I do try to remain calm for him as shouting doesn’t work at all and makes things worse.

I’m just at a loss as to what to do and constantly second guessing if we are doing the right thing.

I hate watching his behaviour suddenly turn, the name calling etc is just not the person I recognise. My mum has witnessed his behaviour recently and has said it’s almost like he’s got two personalities because of how quickly his behaviour just changes.

I know it’s a difficult time being out of routine etc but this has been going on months and I’m just worried that our parenting approach is making things better than worse.

Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading if you got this far and any advice welcome.

Toothache earache constipation .
Check hearing eyes tummy
He started school
He s got a sibling

Try sit do some role play teddy goes to school
Teddy has a baby brother
Might tell you how he sees things

He’s definitely not got toothache, ear ache or constipation or anything physically wrong with him that I can tell and this behaviour has gone on for months.

He loves school but he is definitely still struggling with being a big brother even 18 months on, in fact I think he’s far more jealous now than he was when my youngest was a baby.

Yrp
Roke okay
You and him on floor
This is teddy
Here is his baby brother
What happens next?

First, it's a phase and it will pass.

In the meantime, I think instant relateable consequences are exactly right. But don't be too quick to go in and hug. Let him cry for five minutes and really feel your displeasure and give him time to take it in.

I know that sounds harsh and it will feel desperately hard to do, but you need to up the ante because so far what you've done isn't working.

Sorry I still don’t see how that helps things. I know he’s jealous of the attention his brother gets, I know he feels like his brother does things that he isn't allow to do. But I can’t just give him all my attention all the time, believe me when I say he still gets the fair share of everyone’s attention. And being jealous doesn’t mean he can just act how he wants with no consequence.

@madroid you are probably right, I do think I am too soft and that has caused issues. I think I managed about 30 seconds of him crying today 🙈

This 👆
Time out needs to be time out. It’s his time to calm himself down, if you rush in because he’s screaming in anger, then you just teach him that he can scream and you will capitulate immediately.

He needs to know that not only are there consequences, but they will be implemented. Anti social behaviour results in people not wanting to be around you is what I taught my kids. Don’t put your longing for his approval, and your own emotional needs, above what is best for him long term.

@MissyB1 thank you, I think you are right

I hate time out, using a child's bedroom as a punishment room is horrible, leaving them to cry alone is horrible. You want the child on side, that means giving as much attention as you can and removing it when behaviour is bad. So if you have to tidy up a room that he has made a mess in then that means you don't have time to play a game with him - make your time his reward/punishment. Be clear that certain behaviour isn't ok and remove whatever he is throwing.

He's just been through Christmas, has probably had his own weight in sugar, has a new baby to contend with, is exhausted from starting school and it's all too much.

Who is he calling names? A calm, firm 'please don't call people names it's rude' is fine. If he sees any of his negative behaviour as getting a lot of attention then it will just encourage it as at the end of the day that's what he wants - all your attention.

You need to reduce the attention for doing negative things and up the attention for everything even vaguely good he does - he needs to see that when he's good, that's when he gets lots of attention. The problem is that when he's good you probably think 'thank god, five minutes peace, I'll leave him to it and sort out the baby', so then it's when he starts playing up that all attention is on him.

How much 1 to 1 time does he get without this sibling? Does he get some every day? He is crying out for your attention, that's what he needs tbh so use it to your advantage.

I'm sorry to completely disagree but, I do and I feel these attitudes are making classrooms impossible to teach in. Some children have never been shown that their behaviour has a consequence. I belive children are far far more resilient than we give them credit for. They are not usually crying because they need love and affection in that moment. They are crying because the world feels unfair to them in that moment... why isn't that behaviour unacceptable? They need to learn. I believe our job as parents is to be their calm. To give them some time and space (alone) to calm down and then we go up and talk through with them why they were put in time out. Behaviour = consequence. We offer a cuddle at the end of their time and tell them that we all make mistakes, but the trick is to learn from their mistakes. Our time out room is a bedroom. It has books and colouring in for them to do. It's not a negative space... its a 'you're not behaving as we expect, the consequence of this is you need some time to think about it before returning to the family space'. One of my children is very easy going, a rule follower... the other is a rebel at heart, but he knows (now... its been a journey!) our boundaries. He's tried everything in the past... breaking the childgate at the top of the stairs, running away into the garden to avoid going up to time out... he's fixed any damage he's caused... e.g. nothing happens until you have tidied up the mess you have made but... we (try) to stay absolutely calm... you've made a mess in the time out room (he drew on the furniture in there once)... you clean it up... and then we removed the colouring in stuff from the time out room for a little while. We try to never let him see that his 'big' behaviour effects us.

I agree that children need attention. We play and laugh and love our 2 endlessly but... they also need to know that they are not the centre of the universe and sometimes, in life, you have to wait. When they start school and they haven't learnt this important skill... it's a nightmare for all of the other adults and children in the room.

My rebel at heart is 4 also. He's tested us to the limit and back again... equally he is one of the most resilient and determined children I've ever met. Channel that desire to push limits but... my advice is be firm, fair, calm and consistent. Giving my 4 year old little jobs helps (as does lots of exercise!) Don't praise them though for just anything... don't underestimate them.

@Gem359 I used to agree with you but that approach is not working here. He gets so much attention and I make a lot of effort to have one on one time with him, but it’s got to the point where it’s not fair on his younger brother than he is constantly the priority. (DS2 is 18 months so not a young baby). If I just tidied the room after him I would be there ages as he’d just keep wrecking it, it’s only physically removing him that seems to stop. The name calling is a new thing since school, obviously we remind him it’s not kind to call names and say we don’t do that in our house, but it has zero effect and it’s something he’s getting worse with so I would like to nip in the bud. Previously we’ve always done time out with him so he’s not alone in his room but if he’s living and hitting I’m not sure what the solution is other than leaving him alone (left him for a max a minute).

OP, Google the limbic leap. 4 years old is a tricky time.

@KP1989 I agree with you 100%. I have always tried to be his calm and I think I’m quite good at it. But I think as he gets older maybe he needs that bit of time by himself? Also the bit about them realising he’s not the centre of the world is I think where we are at, I think we’ve actually prioritised him too much over his younger brother and he now thinks he’s entitled to whatever he wants, whenever he wants

‘Time out’ is rubbish. It needs management and time and gives the child attention they haven’t earned.

A good old fashioned telling off in the moment with an air of ‘disappointment’ is enough as long as you don’t labour it. As soon as they look chastened, you wipe the slate clean and resume as normal. No retrospective hugs and kisses or sorries. That just completely undermines it. Just distraction and normal interaction.

Children need parents who will hold the line. Not try to be their best friend. The magic thing about discipline like this is that if they generally good kids, you hardly ever have to do it. Sometimes a look will have the same effect.

I was quite a strict parent when my children were little, but I could trust them to behave anywhere and it obviously wasn’t detrimental as we still hang out and have fun together now that they’re young adults.

@Busby88 Yeah, we do time outs as time alone for them... I think important... I think they need to learn to calm themselves and trying to talk to them when they're in that moment of poor behaviour has no effect. I think we've been in similar situations to you.... we've almost taken for granted that our younger girl (just turned 3) is very easy going. But... she is equally deserving of our time and attention. Good luck... maybe talk him through how you will manage poor behaviour moving forward? I think if they understand that you are working together then it's slightly easier..?! I mean... they will still test every boundary going (a child's job I think!) but...! @screamingabdabz I completely agree that we should be parents not friends... he often throws at me "you're not my friend anymore" and I tell him that he's absolutely correct. He has his own friends. I have mine. I'm his mum but... a hug when they're calm. It's lovely! Time outs also do not give attention. They have a warning. If the behaviour continues I tell them to take themselves upstairs and complete their time out to rethink their behaviour. They go. I get 4 minutes to catch my breath. I go up and if they're not calm... I ask them... I give them a little longer. If they are calm, we spend a minute where they tell me why they were put in time out. I tell them how they should have behaved/ an acceptable way to behave. A hug if they want one. Back downstairs. Praise the other for waiting. Play continues. This has taken training and yes, time but... it works. They don't want to be removed from the family space downstairs @Busby88 we had time outs in this first term for using some colourful language... I assume learnt in school but... he's learnt quick. Really good luck. They keep us busy hey but... I think so worth going in firm now. I teach teenagers and it is somewhat more difficult to change behaviour patterns then

Also... definitely not doing a terrible job of parenting. It's a minefield these days.. so much information out there (too much). I do not know for sure that our approach is the correct one but... we do our best... and being very firm, calm and consistent with our fire cracker has... helped! All the best xxx

100%

@Screamingabdabz I’d love to get to a point where just a look would do, just not sure how to get there and so much conflicting info out there. To be fair he’s as good as gold at school by all accounts so I’m not too worried, just don’t want it to escalate

@Busby88 it's just a phase OP. Don't beat yourself up. My son is 4 and has been very difficult since he was born but he has high functioning autism. It's not uncommon for boys to behave in the way you've described at this age. We have issues recently with DS name calling, hitting, kicking, trashing his room, throwing things amongst other things. It's an ongoing battle but we see a psychologist twice a month and work out things to try which maybe useful and are fairly universal (not just related to autism). What helped us is to keep a diary for 2 weeks to identify patterns/triggers - for us it's TV, transition and tiredness. Next for toys on the floor I have a rule that anything left on the floor at the end of the day is mine to keep and I don't have to give it back - this usually results in DS tidying up as quickly as he can. We play with one thing at a time, if he wants something else he needs to tidy the first thing away. If he throws something - we take it away and remind him toys/food are not for throwing, I have to take it away because you're not hungry/to keep everyone safe. TV is a privilege, it's a reward twice a week for good behaviour and is taken away/switched off if needed. We remind him it's ok to get angry/frustrated/upset but it's not OK to throw/hit etc. Usually in the moment he's so angry that the only thing that calms him is time out (if it works for you, there is no problem with it, it works for us too - psychologist sees no issue in it). When he's calm then we can talk about what happened.
We have seen improvement but it's not perfect. He can calm himself down better, will stop himself from throwing, says sorry etc. Praise good behaviour. Reward charts can work well. Don't make the rewards gifts, stick to activities etc. Kids need boundaries and consistency so always follow through. Try to keep calm.

@BackoffSusan I think limiting TV could help. We used to do that when he was being a pain every morning getting ready and it helped, he knew he wouldn’t have any after pre school if he mucked about too much in the evening. A diary sounds like a good idea.

My youngest has been really difficult all along - like really terrible behaviour at home, but perfect in school.

She is 6 now and finally becoming easier. I think she is just maturing and calming down.

With some children there is no reasoning with them while they are young - just keep explaining the expected behaviour - remove them from situations where they are upsetting other people - and wait for them to grow up a bit. Keep explaining why they should behave a certain way - explain how it makes other people feel - and how people feel when they are being kind or being mean.

i brought my daughter for a walk yesterday and it was so easy and enjoyable - but last year she would have been shouting, running off etc.

Honestly I think you're coming up against the common gentle parenting crunch time where you think you've been holding boundaries but actually you've been using lots of persuasive tricks to get him to think that your boundary is his idea. You get to 3 or 4 and it doesn't work any more and then you're stuck because you don't know how to make things happen when you need to.

The things which helped me change this pattern were Janet Lansbury (her blog and podcast), the book When Your Kids Push Your Buttons, ditching the idea that all consequences are terrible and it's a disaster if I upset my child - a generic consequence or a reward is no terrible thing, and it's helpful for them to sometimes have experiences where they fail/lose or things aren't exactly as they want them. You don't need to artificially create such experiences as they will present themselves, all you really need to do is stop being afraid of them

This course is also good though I don't agree with it 100% there are LOTS of useful suggestions and insights: https://www.coursera.org/learn/everyday-parenting/home/welcome

@BertieBotts thank you, will give both of those a look!

@SuperSleepyBaby Thank you that’s good to hear. My friend had a terrible four/ five year old a few years back, like absolutely horrendous spiteful and physically aggressive. He is now a dream eight year old, the nicest kid you could ever meet. I just don’t want to do something wrong that would mean we come out of the other side in a worse position.

You sound terrified of him.

Consequences, consequences and more consequences. Plenty of NO.

Also lots of praise for good behaviour.