Are we doing the right thing sending our potentially ASD 2 year old to nursery?

[Snacks4days]

It's a long one so I am just going to jump right into it.

DS is due to start nursery in two weeks. He is developmentally delayed and on the waitlist for an appointment at a child development centre for a multidisciplinary assessment for ASD. He has seen SALT and community pediatrician who have said in their professional opinions he is severely on the spectrum but official diagnosis can only be obtained through CDC. He only says very limited words (5) which are only said when he sees objects (no further use to communicate with them for example he says "nana" when he sees a banana but does not ask for banana or say banana when hungry). He does not respond to his name, nor does he understand simple directions given to him (pass that to me, sit down for example). He does not point nor understand if you point at something. He will not take your hand and lead you to something to communicate. The closest we get is a 360 cup thrown at our head if it is empty and he is thirsty.

Nursery staff are lovely, SENDCO and team are already aware of him and making a EHCP to put in place on his first day attending using what reports we have already gathered from medical professionals. However, the issue was his settling in session he had recently where parents take their LO's to the nursery so they can spend an hour and a half getting used to the room, talking to staff ect. Since then we are not sure if this is the right move for DS. We spent the first 30 minutes with him in the room with all the other children and staff letting him get out of his shell and allowing us to just put him down. We left him for an hour with them without us there and what we came back to broke out hearts. He was clinging to one of the nursery staff looking absolutely traumatised. Just thousand yard staring off into the distance, didn't even recognise us when we came in the room. Just all around acting like an animal frozen in place due to terror. Apparently not long after we left, he realised we had gone and he melted down and when one of the nursery staff went over to comfort him (the one he was clung to) he just latched onto her and refused to let go. That was only 1 hour of being there! We took him home and he finally started to come out of his shocked state after about an hour of being back home in his safe environment. It's got us wondering, are we doing the right thing? Is this just going to traumatise him?

To be honest we have some reservations upon seeing the room he is going to be in because he has so little understanding and is pretty much a 10 month old in a 2 year old body going into a room that is clearly for normal 2-3 year olds (little tables and chairs that he will 100% climb on; a water dispenser and little cups for the children to access water themselves that I can see him pulling over). We are also a bit concerned they are underestimating how delayed he is because the nursery worker was telling us all about what they get up to in the room and alot of it DS would not be able to join in with (potty training, the water dispensing, group activities). He will need constant supervision to be in that room without hurting himself and we are worried that they will not be able to do that without taking attention away from the other children.

Every single medical professional is like "YES get him in nursery!" but they haven't spent as much time with him as we have so don't know his as well as we do but maybe we are being too protective? Maybe it will be terrible initially but eventually he will adapt and start to benefit from it? But what kind of trauma would it inflict upon him until we get to that point? Are we doing the right thing? What's your experience sending your child to nursery? How did they react in their settling in sessions?

Has he been going to baby and toddler groups with you before this? I think they would be much more suitable for him and he really doesn't need to be at nursery until he is 3 to help prepare him for school. It's not clear how much chance he's had to socialise though? The medical professionals may be concerned if he's not really getting any socialisation at the moment and that may be why they are really pushing nursery.

He needs to get used to being around groups of children and adults he doesn't know - but he definitely needs to do that with you for a good while before he is left anywhere to cope with it on his own IMO if that hasn't previously happened. The stay and play actually sounds perfect for starters as it's a very gentle start, you definitely need to build up from there but it's perfect for him just to get used to being around a few people he doesn't know.

Autistic kids can come on leaps and bounds around other kids, but that's not going to happen if he is traumatised and clinging to a member of staff every time he goes - especially if he is only going a couple of mornings a week. When he does go it really needs to be 4 or 5 mornings a week so it becomes a routine and he has the chance to get used to this whole new world.

I would also have him take his favourite soft toy or blanket if he has one and talk to the staff about his favourite toys. If he loves opening the door on his toy kitchen then maybe you could take him a little early before the other kids arrive and play with the toy kitchen there if they have one with him.

I understand, I'm on my own with dd. No friends or family to help. I do feel that by the time she was able to go, I was exhausted

If you think you can cope for another year, I'd say keep him with you and your husband. If not, keep on searching for the right nursery because I don't think you've found it 🥺

I'm sorry about your mil. One thing I'll say is, being alone meant I didn't have to deal with other people's bs and ignorance - and thank fuck, it's stressful enough as it is.

Yeah do try the stay and plays again. The people there are usually helpful and I'd enquire about special needs places for when he's ready to start nursery. Plus, the routine of going to the same place will become invaluable xx

im not sure I would take him there tbh.

i really do not mean to be hurtful, but your ds doesn’t respond to his name. He can’t communicate his own needs. I don’t think he is anywhere ready to interact with other children 😢

I think he really needs to be taken in new environments, have the chance to be around other children but playgroup type of environment might be better suited - you’re still there and it’s much much shorter.

If I was trying it, I’d go with much shorter sessions, and a more tapered approach. It’s obviously much more difficult to approach if you cant explain to him what will happen, that you’ll be back in a minute, 15 mins, an hour….

I don't think it's a good idea then OP. But you could do with a break. So I am not judging here - I had my own ASD/ADHD child in nursery as I had no choice with work. Then I had to do it just for the break. If I could go back in time - no I would not do that now.

I don't think your little one needs to socialise. I guarantee you that you are enough right now. But you absolutely need a little break. Have you thought about looking for a childminder who has experience with SEN? I know it's easier said than done. I would research this for a few afternoons a week just to give you the break.

The socialisation in the park and being around others is more than enough.

I don't believe many nurseries are great places because it's so hit and miss. With your child's extra needs I feel this will be awful for them.

The reason I say childminder is because it tends to be much more focused, less kids and you hope they're doing it for the love of it. Alternatively any sort of outdoor forest type nursery? I eventually moved my son out of this corporate place to an outdoor forest type nursery a few days a week and it was so much better.

Have you attended any toddler groups snd stayed with him? These can be a useful transition to see how he gets on around others. You don’t have to start official nursery if you don’t want to, but I would do something to be around other dc. Maybe stay at nursery and do very pert time snd build up?

I think you are expecting too much of a standard nursery. Years ago we (LA) placed SEN dc in state nurseries (from 3) who had a nursery teacher in charge. Age 2 was rare unless the child needed time away from their parent! Now I’m not sure any nursery has a qualified teacher in charge. Staffing won’t be one to one so he might just play. I think the one to one will be down to you. EHCP could be as early as 3. It will depend on timely assessments and LA.

Plus - what then? Where can meet his needs? They will be written down but where can meet them? Funding helps though but expertise can be hard to secure.

When my son was undergoing assessment, the paediatrician advised I put him in nursery as it would help the process. They sent in observers to make reports and took reports from his 1-1. It also did him the world of good, really helped with his terrible social skills and gave me a couple of hours break. I'd say go for it.

I should add, there was a fairly long settling in process with me being there, then moving onto leaving for 10 minutes and building that up in increments. On the first day he was just screaming and head butting the wall and anything else he could get his hands on but the 1-1 was absolutely amazing with him (he's 13 now and we have remained friends) and he trusted her quite quickly. I do think it's worth trying. It was very beneficial for my son and made transition to reception, when the time came, a whole lot easier.

I was going to ask about portage - could you look at attending in a different area where the sessions maybe have better uptake?

Your son sounds like mine at that age, although mine didn't speak until 4yrs.

He son was diagnosed at 2, EHCP at 3, but a little different as he was at his nursery (who are amazing and have a v good reputation locally for SEND children) from 9 months old so we didn't have quite the same settling troubles, although he was a covid toddler and he did struggle for longer than other kids when returning after the first big lock down.

He moved out of the baby room (3 months-18mths ish depending on development) at the expected time, but stayed in the next room (known as "the 2s" - kids 18ish months to approaching 3yrs) until he was 4 because that's what best suited his needs in terms of communication, instructions, play style, lack of toilet training etc. He then went straight into the preschool bit when he was 4-5yrs (September baby so was a few days off turning 5 when he left) having entirely missed out the 3yr old room because of a massive and sudden jump in his development. The most important contributor to his success and happiness there, is that they were very keen, willing and able to adapt to his needs.

For what it's worth, he's currently thriving (and incredibly happy) in a mainstream school, something we never imagined just a couple of years ago.

My son was showing GDD and signs of Autism before he started nursery at 2. He settled well, his older sister attended the nursery so it was familiar to him. My son disliked leaving the house, he could become incredibly distressed and his safe place was in his pram, so I left that at the nursery and they used it if needed. The support of the nursery was invaluable. The NHS assessment process is slow and painful, but the nursery/education side is usually incredibly helpful.

Do you have an early years service or Autism nurses in your area? What about Portage, that's help for pre-school children. There may be a specialist nursery he could be referred to in your area. It was my sons nursery who initiated the EHCP, when my son was around 3 1/2, so that it was ready when we needed to lol for a school place.

Good luck.

I will speak to the nursery about this. They are a really great nursery, everyone we have mentioned him going there to is like "oh yeah, that's an excellent place to send him". They have their own SEND team of 5 members of staff and they are on everything already talking about what funding they might try to get for him so he has the correct support in place ASAP. He did go back to his normal self after about an hour at home in his safe space so maybe if we do slow increments he may adjust?

It has been advised by professionals so the reasons don't matter. My two year old started going a couple of mornings a week because he has a speech delay plus possible autism.

Ok. So nursery has send staff so I’m not sure why you thought he would just be left playing with sand? I’d negotiate shorter stays and build up.

Just make sure you do several sessions. I have had to up the sessions to three mornings a week because my son (who says about ten words and is nearly three) is still not completely settled. Often wants to get his shoes!

It was the community pediatrician that used that phrasing. We did come away from that appointment quite...deflated I guess? because she was pointing out things that we hadn't noticed (ie he wasn't looking her in the eyes). He does heavily stim (pats his head, flaps his hands) and was doing so alot in the appointment so maybe that's why she described him as that? She literally said "it's my professional opinion that your son is severely on the autism spectrum but the diagnosis pathway is to be referred onto the child development centre so they can do their multidisciplinary assessment for an official diagnosis".

He also definitely has sensory issues (cannot stand the texture of mash for instance and hates if he is wearing long sleeves) and is 1000% in his own world, no attention paid to other children, adults or pets; or anything not on his radar. For example we walked past a house that had all these beautiful Christmas decorations up for charity and he didn't even glance at them, he was focused on walking straight ahead.

There is also family history of neurodivergence (ADHD and learning difficulties that required special schools on my side, autism on paternal side) so maybe that also contributed to why the pediatrician said what she said?

I feared that because there weren't any SEND staff in the room with him during the settling in session so I worried I overestimated what the SEND team did? We spoke to the SENDCO (manager of the SEND team) who then left us with another member of staff who was clearly just the usual attendant of the room. But when we had previously spoke to her at an open event at the nursery she assured us that she had a staff of 4 members (5 including her) so not sure where they all were during his settling in session

I was the one-to-one at nursery for a little boy with autism and GDD who was pretty similar to how you describe your son - completely in his own world, no acknowledgment of other adults/ children, lots of stimming (this little boy would rock and flap his fingers in front of his eyes) functionally non-verbal.

Nursery didn’t really change anything for him as he wasn’t able to socialise with the other children. He was mostly there to get the evidence for the EHCP so he could apply to attend a special school for reception.

So up to you I think. You can apply for the EHCP yourself, you don’t need to send him to nursery for that, it sounds like you have lots of professionals involved already. Also, your current ratio is 1-1, you and him. At nursery it’s 4 children to one adult for 2 years old and 8 children to one adult for 3 year olds. If he can’t access the social side of nursery he is 100% better off with you going to playgroups, you will be able to support his development much better.

My DS was diagnosed with autism at 2 and half (it does happen!). I didn’t send him to nursery until Easter of his preschool year when he was nearly 4, and then actually kept him in nursery until Easter of his Reception year when he transitioned to school.
My reflections : I am glad I ignored all the well meaning professional advice to get him socialised at nursery- my gut was that it was not what he needed. He needed calm environments, secure attachments, supported socialising with an exit route when needed. We went to baby and toddler groups and similar where we could go together, I could support him, and we could leave when we needed to. It was a HARD TIME. I hear you about needing some time without him too. I wish I had hired a part time nanny to come to our home. An individual he could form an attachment to, who could support him. I could have worked an extra day to pay for it. The extra money would have been useful. And it would have been an extra day I wasn’t 1:1 with him all day. His Dad and I worked opposite parts of the week so our income was much reduced, we never saw each other, and we had him 1:1 when he had him.
He struggled at nursery even after he became verbal at 3 and half. The environment was too challenging. I’m not sure it was the right thing to do and that a longer transition to school would have been better when he was nearly 5.
Anyway, these are my experiences, trust your own instincts about your own child - I doubted myself when I trusted my instincts over professional advice, but looking back I am glad I didn’t have to use nursery sooner.

I've worked in a 2 year old room at nursery and we have definitely applied for EHCPs - it won't be in place before the OP's child starts but they can definitely start the process.
We've also applied and received inclusion funding for 1:1.
And we've also had 2 year olds 'on the pathway' to diagnosis.

@Snacks4days I can see what you mean. What a shame no send staff made themselves known to you. Have you spoken to them about how they take his needs into account after he starts? What plan would they discuss with you? However, being realistic, if he didn’t notice Christmas lights he will need a huge amount of encouragement to participate and I would want to be part of the process for his education.

Personally I think I mainstream nursery is not always ideal for even typically developing 2 year olds - for a child with additional needs it will probably be hard going.
The staff ratio will be 1 to 4 or 5 children and although he may qualify for 1:1 later it will be likely be months away at least.

On the other hand, it will give you a break and it will make evidence gathering for an EHCP/funding quicker.

One thing I got from your first post is he noticed you'd disappeared rather than you said goodbye - even if he doesn't understand the words, make sure you have a little goodbye ritual and he sees you leave so it doesn't come as a shock. He needs to have trust in you and the staff.

The best attendance pattern for him is likely to be little and often - start with an hour every morning and increase to 2, then 3 hours.

Ask specifically about the send team - it might be they have particular staff 1:1 with children with funding, or who have speech and language training and do small intervention groups.
It's unlikely they would have a spare member of send staff who can come and work with any child with additional needs.
I'd imagine at least for the first couple of terms your son will just be looked after by the room staff with the same 1:4 or 1:5 ratio as all the other children.

Hi I'm a nursery teacher and sendco in a mainstream primary. I currently have 3 children like this in my setting and another due to start. It is possible!
I'd recommend a much slower transition, I've had parents sat in the cloakroom for weeks!( Their choice not mine) It's much easier to speed things up once things are going well than having to back pedal after a disaster.

I'd make sure they apply for funding asap and start to gather evidence for EHCP. Ask for a referral to the LA SEND team who can observe and advise (also good evidence for EHCP). Look at introducing visual supports for routines and communication. Your NHS speech and language team may have courses to attend. Get back in touch with portage see what else they can offer. Also look at SEN playgroups or support groups.

Honestly, at this point he doesn't need 'socialisation' he isn't interested and those kids are just in his way! Yes he needs to build relationships with other trusted adults and develop his communication skills.

Thinking ahead, will he need a specialist school? It is really hard to get things in place but starting at 2 you should be ok. You need to name a school by Jan before he starts. If you haven't already, apply for DLA. Could this be used for a childminder to work with him 1:1 rather than busy nursery?

Go with your gut. I think 2 is a bit young even for many neurotypical kids really. My eldest went at 2 and I really regret not waiting until 2.5 as I still feel the extra 6 months would have made a great difference. Nobody knows him like you.

This is not an informed response.

Every child is different and you'll know whether it's right for your son after a few goes to see if he settles. My DS is 3 and awaiting an assessment for ASD. He loves nursery, he runs in when he gets out the car and sees where he is and the staff have been unbelievably helpful in gathering evidence for his DLA claim and now working towards an EHCP. He has been going to nursery since he was about 11 months old though so it's normal for him and not a new environment.

The nursery totally embrace him for who he is and his interests, he's not forced to join in group activities if he doesn't want to but with gentle encouragement and repetition, his attention span and ability to focus on something for a few minutes is becoming so much better.

Best wishes to you both