Advice for dealing with 4yo meltdowns - I'm overwhelmed and getting it wrong

[whatstrue]

This is long so thank you if you have time to read and help. 🙏

My healthy, engaged, switched on, happy boy can occasionally have massive, massive tantrums / meltdowns. I think it's normal? (Only child) but would value some advice from experienced distanced with this.

I've read all the books and followed all the advice online plus Instagram parenting tips etc etc, but I find it's not that realistic. Example, there's a whole script they advise you to use, but my son is not in listening mode when he's mid tantrum.

Also the advice is remove him and put him in a safe small contained space to hash out the tantrum, but this usually just isn't possible for 2 reasons:

1. He's too heavy and strong and if I try to pick him up he'll fight me, kick out etc and my back can't do it plus I'm wrestling him which is only making things more stressful.
2. If we are outside in the street or something there is nowhere contained I can take him.

I would really like to know what tactics others use with 4 year olds. It's different from when he was a toddler and more scary in a way as he's so much bigger. I just don't know how to handle it. I'm feeling a bit frightened that I'm going about it all wrong and not helping him to be honest.

For anyone who's got the time to kindly read this, I've described a recent meltdown below in detail. I'm wondering how I could have handled this better, so that's why I've written it out with what I was thinking at the time. I'd appreciate no unkind judgements as I'm giving myself a hard time, but I'm looking for constructive ideas.
Thank you 🙏 in advance for any thoughts.

(Also if anyone asks about context, we have no evidence of ND, school say he's doing brilliantly, he's been star of the week a few times already. He's quite a sensitive boy, and very energetic, intelligent I think, engaged , interested etc. we have a structured bedtime routine and early bedtime, although he has been waking up a few times in the night recently.)

Example of a tantrum last week:
when I picked him up from school.
Gave him a cuddle, showed him I was happy to see him, he seemed fine. Our home is a 5 minute walk from school btw. Once we had come out of the gate and walked down the street he suddenly stopped and decided he wanted to go all the way back in to say goodbye to his friends who were still waiting for their parents. This was seemingly random and not something he's ever asked so I had absolutely no idea where it had come from but he was really distressed about it and I could tell by his demeanour that a meltdown was coming - you just know. In my head I was weighing up, do I let him go back, do I say no or do I try to distract him. (We were 30seconds down the road already, and there is a one-way system in the school so we would have to walk all the way round again to get back to his classroom.) So I tried to distract him with exciting things at home but he kept going on and then broke away from me and started running back to school really fast. (The gate locks behind you btw so we would have to walk all the way back through the one-way system the school to find his friends). Anyway I was running after him thinking 'ok this is inconvenient but if it matters so much I can just let him go back and see his friends if it means he doesn't have a meltdown'.

However when we arrived at the classroom he then said "no I don't want to" and again seemed very distressed. I got down on his level and asked if he was sure, and gently said it was no problem either way, but he said no he didn't want to say goodbye to his friends and was agitated / distressed on the verge of meltdown I could tell.

So then we started walking back out the school to home again. Just as we got through the exit gate and just as it closed shut behind us he started wailing "I want to say goodbye to my friends"! It was like he was playing a game but at the same time I could see he was really agitated and ready to meltdown.

My heart sank at this point! I was thinking how in earth can I get him away as I thought if I could just get him home he'd forget about this. I had a snack in my pocket which I offered but that didn't distract him. By now he was screaming to go back into the school and say goodbye to his friends. My brain was working through all the options but I didn't know what to do. I started thinking I can't let him go back in again as I need to be strong and be in charge at this moment, and I know he'll change his mind again and it's some sort of strange dance - he's done this changing his mind thing before. I need to get him away from here and focussed on something else. So I said "oh darling we can't go back in now as the school is closing but we will see your friends tomorrow, I know let's go and make granny's Christmas card". But he was now screaming and in full meltdown.

I tried to pick him up but he was lashing out, screaming etc. there were parents coming out of the school gate and looking at us which is never nice and he started screaming "you're hurting me", which clearly I wasn't doing. I said "I can't let you back into the school now as the gate is closed and we'd have to walk all the way round again so it would take too long as it's home time. Let's go home", but he was in full meltdown.

Anyway long story short I struggled to carry him back to our home with him screaming and crying the whole way. He was shouting at the top of his voice "put me down I don't like it". At one stage I stopped as my back was so sore and he softly said in my ear "mummy keep walking". I started walking again and he then shouted "put me down". Very odd - changeable almost performative behaviour?

When we got home I got him inside the house but he was screaming and lashing out and trying to get out of the front door which he is able to open. Our house is directly on the road so I was saying "I can't let you out onto the road as it's not safe" but he was thrashing, screaming, red faced completely overwhelmed with cortisol shouting "I don't like you you're boring" and he hit me on my body a few times. I said "I can't let you hit me" and moved his hands away.

It took about 10 minutes to fade down into some kind of calm. In that time I sat low with my back against the front door and he was raging.

I had a conversation sometime later when he was calm (spoke about hitting) but didn't get much out of him.

Stick to your guns.Either saying no we've already left school the first time, or insising he says goodbye as requested when you did go back. He's calling the shots here.

Yes but how do I do that? I struggling to physically remove him.

In that example he sounds absolutely exhausted after school. Have you tried bringing a snack and an easy way of getting him home such as his scooter with a pull lead so you drag him along whilst he munches on a biscuit?

My middle son - who is now a lovely, thoughtful 18 year old - was a bit of a nightmare at 4. It seemed to be a particularly difficult age for him.
In your son’s case I wonder if it’s to do with choice and working out how his power and your power fit together and how much autonomy he has. This might be particularly related to school and transition between home and school and needing to be more responsible for himself during the school day which can be exhausting and a bit scary.
I think you handled it pretty well. I wonder if it might have helped at some point to try saying to him that it seems like he wants two things - to go home and to say goodbye to his friends and that this might feel difficult for him as he can’t do both. You could try just staying in one place for a bit to give him space to not feel panicked by the feelings. Ultimately though it sounds like he needed you to take control for him which you did.
When he’d calmed down it might have helped to try and name the feelings and the problem. Have you got the How to Talk so kids will listen….book? I found that really helpful.

After school is a real stress point for kids, they have been holding it in all day so they just everything bubbles up at once.
I think you were very slightly in "ok let's fix it" mode but he was more in "I'm not right but I've no idea what's wrong" mode.
Every child and parent and situation is different so I can only talk based on my experience...
It can be worth spending a bit more time the moment you pick him up just to regulate together, before you set off. Then any issue that's bubbling up can pop out before you try to set off home.
Also don't worry about being judged (easier said than done) my son (he's ND) I just let him flop down on the floor or whatever he wants to do then give him the time he needs to calm down. Rather than trying to take him away from the situation as a priority. But you do have to judge whether the situation itself is exacerbating the meltdown, and do just enough to make sure things are getting better rather than worse.
For my son flopping on the floor or simply having a good cry with me close by seems enough to calm down most of the time, but there can be trickier ones like hunger.
I hope that's helpful. In a way my son having a lot more meltdowns in the past means I'm not embarrassed at all by them any more!

Isn’t it evidence of ND for tantrums/meltdowns to persist into school age and be most likely to happen after school? Or in a public place? Or when structured routines are changed?

For the particular meltdown, your mistake was to ignore him and try to distract, that doesn’t work on an ND child or even one past age 2. I think I would have taken the reassurance route and said something like “Oh don’t worry, your friends all know that home time is saying goodbye until tomorrow. You don’t need to say a special goodbye as well”

If he had insisted, I would have repeated, no one else is going back for special goodbyes, you really don’t need to. Your friends will be just as happy to see you tomorrow as always.

The best tactics for meltdowns is to try and avoid the triggers, defuse them when you can by removing from the situation. It’s really difficult with school age children as a day of school and masking can create a boiling pot that then boils over as soon as they are with a safe person (you). Perhaps an after school treat at home or routine that is about relaxing and decompressing might help. It gives him something to look forward to. Even if it is to go home and have a half hour playing on a switch or iPad. Screens are known to help ND children self regulate and self soothe/destress after full day of masking at school.

He's not "calling the shots" he's overwhelmed and dysregulated.
But I do agree with sticking to ops boundaries. But don't make it into a power struggle, you are there to help your child regulate not beat them into submission!

@whatstrue well done for staying calm, I don’t think I could have been as calm as you.

No advice as I’m struggling with my almost 4 year old, constantly changing her mind and screaming, getting out of the house is getting harder and harder.

Sending you hugs xx

Ok thanks for these points and for reading my post.

A couple of questions I have:

@johnd2 I felt quite strongly that being there right by the gate was making the problem worse - keeping him agitated if you know what I mean? I felt like we needed to be elsewhere. How do you manage that?

Re spending time regulating when I pick him up, I like that idea but not sure how I could do it? He will chuck his bag at me and immediately run out of the school, I have to follow.

@Pottingup I think you're spot on with the after school thing. He's clearly holding it all together all day, and he's doing that well as the teacher seems to think he's completely fine and would probably be shocked to see him in these moments. I have read How to Talk, however their mid-meltdown advice is a bit unhelpful as there's so much talking. My son won't have listening ears at that stage. Afterwards we do name feeling yes. I'm quite proud of him on that front as he is getting good at saying things like "I felt frustrated because..." however it doesn't help in the heat of the moment!

Isn’t it evidence of ND for tantrums/meltdowns to persist into school age and be most likely to happen after school? Or in a public place?
@LoremIpsumCici is it? Is this the case? I thought 4 year olds still had meltdowns? Where have you read this please?

@whatstrue
Based on this:
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/14406-temper-tantrums

it would seem to me your child may now be showing signs of ND.

A lot of kids find transitions difficult, and the leaving school point is a big transition, from being with different adults and 30 other kids and all these rules and expectations to remember and engage with. Then they're tired and hungry on top. Advice I've seen is the very first thing is to shove food at them - maybe you could bring a carton of orange juice, that would quickly get some sugar in him? (Plus kids often don't drink enough at school anyway).

I would agree that there's no point trying to negotiate or fix things when they're screaming and crying and lashing out. It's just a time to focus on keeping them safe, so stopping them running in the road etc, and you either wait it out or if you can bear hug them up and lug them home then great. Kids are going to be frustrated and tired and sad and angry about things, you can't always head them off at the pass, and sometimes it's just the feelings more than an issue than can be fixed. It's a storm that has to roll through and you can be there to comfort them when it's passed.

Mum is flip flopping though so ds will think he's in charge of what happens. My ds wasn't easy, and reluctant to leave places, but they do need to know that parents make that decision. Sometimes a firm no we don't have time is necessary.

Stand firm and Chuck him in his bedroom to calm down. Reassure him that you're there but he cannot behave this way.

I think it's tiredness, my son (who is 4 in April) is the same every evening I collect him from preschool. We try to keep him awake until bedtime and because he is so tired he will have tantrums or is just generally irritable. I find it very stressful to be honest but just holding out hope it will end soon.
He still naps on weekends! Does your son nap?
Sorry not much advice on the tantrums but you're not alone!

Okay, not sure if that's conclusive @LoremIpsumCici ? That article only says that tantrums should start to decrease once they start school aged 4, and he will be 4.5 in January.

Also no other signs of ND and reporting from school all good, meeting expectations or better. Anyone else know if 4.5year olds should be having tantrums if neurotypical?

I honestly can't get him up the stairs and into his room in that state. I couldn't even pick him up once we were in the house as he was thrashing out and he's big / heavy.

My son had worse tantrums at 4 than he did at 2 or 3. He’s 18 now and not ND. I have two other sons who were definitely still having occasional meltdowns at 4.

Plus I definitely did my share of carrying a screaming child somewhere because they needed to be out of the situation to calm down. I think you sometimes just have to and really not care what anyone else thinks.

My children still had tantrums at that age. One is ND one not.

I couldn't move them at that age if they were having a tantrum so I didn't try.

After school is peak tired and grumpy so pushing food straight at them is definitely something that will help.

Otherwise I just waited it out. Didn't try to physically move them. Followed them if they walked or ran off.

OP i have a five year old who still tantrums. I’m confident they’re reducing in size and we’re both better equipped to work through them. He has friends worse than him - what I’m trying to say is a 4 year old tantruming is not necessarily ND.

My son definitely struggles with “restraint collapse” and I am wondering if this is what is happening to you in the scenario you set out after school.

It helps my son to pass him a snack after school - he’s usually hangry and feeling a bit depleted, a biscuit, piece of fruit, something easy to eat for a quick sugar boost.

I also avoid asking any questions and just walking to the car and making statements about what’s next. In the summer going a straight to the park helped no end. But it could be an activity you know he likes at home. “Right now we’re going to get into the car/walk home and then we’re going to do some colouring/watch TV/go to the park” focus his mind on something he’ll enjoy.

In that scenario I’d have probably got down to his level and asked what he wants to achieve - it might be there was something inside he has forgotten?? But I would have just discussed that when he was calm.

When he’s calm talk things through and discuss how he can behave better next time - whilst still meeting his needs in the moment and why that behaviour is not acceptable.

If it’s safe to let him thrash it out do it, the parents aren’t judging you OP, they’re just glad it’s not their turn.

I think after school tantrums at this age are very common. I still get them with my 6 year old and the clear triggers are hunger and tiredness. I find a snack immediately after school helps avert some of them. Sometimes when I see one starting I physically start putting food in her mouth and that will stop it in its tracks. It also helps after school not to ask about school or anything at all as they don’t have the mental energy left to process it. Food and cuddles.

I’m not sure you did anything ‘wrong’. Sometimes children just get overwhelmed to a point that they cannot physically listen. There isn’t always a ‘right’ solution that will avert it, just a ‘least bad’ one that will reduce stress for all involved. Probably don’t try and distract with another ‘fun’ thing - it’s something else for an overwhelmed brain to try and deal with.

All I do at that point is repeat the same simple message calmly. They cannot process anything that you are saying in that state so you need to keep it very simple. I wait until I can see that she is at a point where she will accept a cuddle and then I give her one. I tell myself she can’t scream forever and take lots of deep breaths to keep myself calm. A full on tantrum or meltdown is a child in severe emotional distress - it’s not about a power struggle at that point. I can see a clear difference in my child between bratty strops, which get ignored and absolutely not given in to, and overwhelmed meltdowns, which I treat with compassion.

They do get better slowly. Just don’t let it overwhelm YOU. Once it’s over, put the TV on and give yourself some time to calm down on your own.

@SunQueen24 thank you, that's really helpful

@Vavazoom that's really helpful and reassuring too, thank you

How’s it going OP?

Give him the food straight out the gate