School nurse's advice

[NotABanana]

I told her my DD, who is 4 3/4 wasn't yet dry at night. (She had a few dry nights a while ago but not for a while now) I am using pyjama pants as the washable nappies in her size don't suit her frame so leaked.

The nurse said to not use the pants, put her in knickers if she wanted to wear something, increase her day time drinks and a double wee at bedtime. She needs to learn the consequences of a wet bed and this is how to get her dry.

I am willing to take advice as I am sure I did everything wrong with DS1 and also have another child so need to be better this time.

Any thoughts?

its up to you but 4 3/4 isnt late so try not to worry

my 6 yr old goes through periods of wetting the bed, but is fine again atm. We get him up at about 10pm to wee but dont mess with drinks or anything. He wont wear the pyjama panys so i dont know about those

She told me not to lift and we have only done it twice with my then 6 year old in the past. It was awful. He cried to go back to bed, didn't wee and we just felt awful. I feel very much that she will do it when she can and to just let it happen but not sure that is the right thing to do. She says she will never going to be dry and gets all

oh poor thing

i just tell my ds to get up, i cant lift him - hes too heavy! he doesnt get upset though so i can see your point

This is day 3 of trying my 2 and 10 month old son without a nappy on at nap time and he is dry!!!!

Yesterday he wet and soiled his pants in bed while awake and the day before he was a bit wet.

So so proud of him.

He is proud too at having no nappies. Day one was so funny as at bedtime he told me no nappies!! Told him no nappies from 3 at night but no idea why? Hope to get the idea in maybe.

Oh yes, they are soooo heavy when sleepy.

Well if she is wet every night then surely she is not producing enough of the hormone to make her wee concentrated enough so that her bladder doesn't empty herself. I think the nurse is dishing out old fashioned advice.

My dd is nearly 6 and regularly still wets at night esp when very tired or unwell (she is a deep sleeper). She is very upset about it etc and there is no way I am going to wash sheets most days and possible up during the night stripping a bed in some half hope that it may speed up the process.

The nurse is talking out of her arse. Sorry, but she really is.

At the age of 5, something like one in five children are not dry at night - it is not unusual, and it is not something that they can learn to do. It's all very well saying she needs to learn the consequences, but if she is not able to be dry, it's not her fault.

There is a hormone which kicks in any time up until the age of 7, which suppresses urination overnight. That's how night-time dryness happens, not through training or teaching. Until that hormone kicks in, she is not physically able to be dry.

Increasing her daytime drinks is sensible advice, because it helps the bladder to have an increased capacity for urine, but I think the rest of her advice is total tosh.

Thank you WWB I was sure what you posted was right but couldn't remember the correct words & ages. My dd is slowly having more dry nights than wet nights so I'm hoping that her 2 year old sister won't be dry before her!

With my DD we did exactly as your nurse advised and it worked no problem. She wet the bed a 3 or 4 times but got the message that weeing at night = wet sheets, much the same way as weeing in the day = wet knickers.

DD was 2.6yo when dry at night (dry in the day at 2) so it can't be that hard. Having said that, she was in reusables so might have had a head start on sussing we = wet bum.

I don't get this hormone theory, is it a new thing? It certainly hasn't reached these shores, DD's paediatrician hadn't heard of it at all.

No, it's not a new thing; it was the reason I wasn't dry until I was five forty years ago and it's the reason my daughter was only dry a few months ago at almost seven.

I don't have time to find a link (off to fetch dd) but Google anti-diurectic hormone, or have a look at the ERIC website.

Yes there is a hormone, can't remember the name.

Bladder training works by increasing fluids & encouraging voiding regularly.

Some children are night dry at 2-3 yrs others take much longer 3 - 12yrs & a small no. of adults are never dry!!

It depends on your preference how to deal with it. some lift, some in nappies, some just get a water proof sheet and change sheet everyday..

Ah right. DD's paed is a very sceptical person and mentioned that it might be a myth bandied about by disposable nappy manufacturers, but if the theory predates Pampers then obviously that isn't true.

It's just most of the DD's contemporaries at nursery and elsewhere are dry both day and night by 3yo, so I don't actually know anyone with dcs that took longer. But then, if they advertise night time pants for older children there must be demand for them.

My DD was 4.3 and still in night pull-ups which were largely always wet. She had been dry during the day for 2 years.

We tried taking her out of the pull-ups in a fairly low key fashion just to see what would happen. Interestingly she was dry the first night, wet the second and then has been completely dry ever since (over 4 months) - not a single wet bed.

So I am an advocate of just having a go and seeing if it will work - which I sort of think is what your HV is recommending.

We were expecting it to be more traumatic for all concerned but it has been a piece of piss (so to speak!)

Oh heck. Mixed messages.

She had a few dry nights ages ago so what does that say?

I also thought that making her learn the consequences was harsh (and I told her so) if she really couldn't help it.

I am torn as I don't want to do the wrong thing.

I will ask DD what she wants to do I think.

She only goes to the loo about twice a day and won't go before we leave for school.

I asked DD what she wanted to do last night and she said wear a nappy. I said that was fine but unfortunately we all forgot and she wore knickers and was wet again.

I want to just let her wear the pyjama pant pull up type things and let her do it when her body is ready but feel I have got things all wrong in terms of getting them out of nappies.

Odd things from MIL telling me what she did doesn't help.

DS1 - age 3 when dry in the day. 7 now and sometimes wet at night.

DD - dry before 2 in the day. 4 3/4 now and wet at night.

DS2 - dry in the day at 2 1/2, 2 11m now and nappies at night still.

NAB, I think you just have to grit your teeth and prepare for a few wet nights, much as they are a pain. I equate it with having to put up with the odd accident in day training until they "got" it. Having said that, DD's nappies were mainly dry at night for 2-3 weeks before I decided to go without.

I don't think it's cruel, cruel would be if you shouted at them for wetting the bed. If they're still wetting regularly after a couple of weeks, you just have to find a way of getting your point across without sounding too accepting, IYSWIM. I found with DD just the discomfort and inconvenience of having wet sheets (ie getting her up in the night and changing the lot) must have put her off weeing at night if she could.

If your DD only goes to the loo twice a day I would say she has a lot of bladder control, she just needs to learn to apply it at night, no?

The thing is, if she can't do it nothing I say or do will make her body be able to do it?? She doesn't wake up in the night, DH changes her bed in the morning and showers her then.

How did you potty train in the day? Did you go for it and not look back even if she wet herself for a couple of weeks? Or did you keep stopping and retrying until she was ready and got it in a couple of days?

I do feel your pain, it's a total PITA changing and washing sheets every day. I think you have to do what you feel you can put up with.

My DP's DS used to wet his bed until he was 8 or so, oddly enough when he started coming to stay over at ours he never wet the bed, only at home. I'm not sure of what conclusions to draw from that, whether the bedwetting at home had become a habit and his potential embarrassment at wetting the bed elsewhere put him off. If so, it would suggest some degree of wilfulness/control on the part of the child, no? Anyway, he stopped everywhere pretty much soon after.

It took 3 attempts from 17 months but that was my fault not hers, I couldn't believe she really was ready being so young and I was pregnant and couldn't get my head around so much going on.

I breaks my heart when she says she is never going to get a chocolate button as she is never going to be dry.

Bladder control in the day really doesn't have any relation to being dry at night.

Dd was dry immediately during the day - but at night she just didn't wake up - not much point in trying to train her not to empty her bladder when she was asleep and her body was urinating! She asked several times to try going without a nappy, but it upset and depressed her when she was then wetting the bed three times a night, and each time went back into PJ pants after four or five days.

Expecting her to do something that she physically cannot do puts a lot of pressure onto a child, and we were happy to wait until she was physically ready before we took her out of PJ pants, rather than trying to force the issue and changing her sheets three times a night.

Banana, if your dd is happier with a nappy, and isn't waking when she wees, then personally I think you would be on a hiding to nothing trying to get her dry at night at the moment. I honestly believe that it's not something you can train - it is better to wait until you feel she is ready. She doesn't need to be stressed out thinking that she is doing something wrong, or that you are disappointed in her for doing something she has no control over.

Have a look at some of the leaflets on the ERIC website here - I found the ones on bedwetting were very informative. It might reassure you that you haven't done anything wrong - it is very, very common not to be out of night nappies at this age.

I agree with you WWB which is why I said it was fine for her to wear a pull up thing. Shame we forgot to check.

I am going back to them. I just wish I could find a washable that would suit her.

I am not disappointed in her but am fed up of how MIL makes me feel when I ask about it.

They lifted in those days and both boys were dry before school.

Don't tell your MIL. Don't ask her questions, don't tell her how dd is getting on. If she asks, just keep saying "Oh, we're doing fine thanks", and change the subject. It will save your sanity, believe me!

She may tell you that both boys were dry, but that doesn't necessarily mean dry as in not wetting the bed! Her idea of dry may well have been not putting a nappy on, and changing the sheets three times a night instead ...

When I told her what the nurse said to do, I asked her if she was fine with it. The kids were meant to be sleeping at hers that night but I wasn't planning on starting that night as I hadn't talked to the children about it. She didn't want to do it at her house - maybe not the start of it anyway? - as it may put them off going to her house again.

I want to go with my instincts but are so messed up I don't know if that is right.

wigwambam my situation with ds1 (6) is the same as with your daughter. Ds1 was very very easy to daytime train and I can count on one hand how many times he has had daytime accidents but at night he has been hit and miss. As I say atm he seems fine. I didnt go down the nappy/nightime pants route as he refused to wear them. Luckily I have some fantastic incontinence bedtime sheets (washable) as dd is doubly incontinent and disabled and he uses one of hers as I wash....

we are a late bedtime training family though. My sister was very late, before disposable nappies were affordable to all so i dont buy the disposable nappy supplier theory either

No, I don't buy the disposable supplier theory at all. Dh wasn't dry at night until he was seven, I was five, and there was no choice then apart from terry squares or changing the sheets three times a night. It was a pretty fair bet with both of us being late that dd would be, too!

Banana, trust your instincts; they are usually right.

Thanks.

I was probably about 4 but I had other issues. I will go back to pull up things and let DS1 do what he wants.