Lack of respect from nuerodiverse daughter, is it learned?

[Lackoffamilyrespect]

Late night essay incoming...

I am low contact with nearly all of my family, except for one relative who married into the family, who I get on with really well and is now separated from my blood relative.

None of my blood relatives respects me, except maybe a few of my cousins who I don't see very often because of being kept apart growing up due to family distinction. Always really warm to one another when we've seen each other when visiting another elderly relative who sadly passed recently, but wouldn't stay in contact much due to age differences and respective parents not getting on so well, so never forming that bond. As some of my cousins have gotten older, that lack of respect towards me has rubbed off on them from the older generation and they've said nasty things about my character which are just made up and because I'm a scapegoat for a lot of narcissistic personalities in a dysfunctional family- I was always the bright, happy one who loved everyone unconditionally and made the effort to go and see everyone, despite them being diatant from each other and hateful about one another, but since I've gotten older that made it easier for younger relatives to pick on me in a group, as I was the common ground between them all, as they didn't know each other that well. I don't know if that makes sense.

Anyway, I know keep myself to myself and have very few friends because I went travelling to get away from it all, and all my healthy relationships I made when I was older and more healed and able to pick better people (not always, but the majority were decent) are with people who are abroad from when I travelled.

Sadly I don't think my DD has seen many people treat me kindly and warmly. I'm a single mum and left her dad when she was a few weeks old and not seen or heard from him since. We only see relatives occasionally but she hasn't seen them treat me with kindness whereas they treat her very well, so I guess that's why I kept up some minimal contact.

I don't have any good friends here in the UK as all my old friends were toxic towards me as I guess it was easy for bullies to befriend me as I was vulnerable growing up due to abusive household. It's been hard to meet good people since I'm looking after my child 24/7. I don't work as my child struggles with full time school. I have therapy btw and it's helped me loads and made me take a step back from socialising to figure out where I've been going wrong with past relationships. I seem to have picked up bad habits since returning to the UK and only can find single parents friends whose lives are ridiculously chaotic, and although kind to me, seen so distracted by their chaos they can't engage in any proper or meaningful conversation, but the children all get on, so I indulge in these group meetups sometimes for the sake of my child. I completely stopped meeting up one on one with any of them though as it was too painful as they talk about only themselves. In a group I can just be in the group whilst they talk over one another.

So coming to the crux of the issue. My daughter has zero respect towards me. I have strong boundaries with her. Won't tolerate the disrespect and there's consequences for her behaviour, but it's just constant all day long. She has some kind of undiagnosed autism or ADHD or both, so I'm mindful that she can't tolerate frustration or negative feelings and give her space to let out those feelings and won't allow her to hit me (even though she manages to every single time). But it's almost like there's also something else psychological going on, like she's been taught that she can't trust anything I say or any boundary or prompt I give her. She refuses absolutely everything and will even promise to me that she won't do xyz again and will promptly do it. She seems to think I'm an actual emotional punching bag. I reiterate to her over and over again that I'm not her slave or emotional punch bag and follow through by removing her from whatever of mine she is trying to break or removing her from the door if she's hurting me or trying to antagonise me. It's been like this since she was a baby. One time when she was starting out walking, she came up behind me whilst I was tidying up and grabbed me from behind by my hair and pulled me down to the ground, then walked off. I'm covered in bruises. Say for example she's snuggling me but digging her elbows into me and hasn't realised, I'll say 'dd that hurts can you move your elbows please' and she'll just grin as though she's pleased that she's hurt me and will dig in harder and then I have to fight her to remove her elbows from me and put her onto another sofa. Tried reward charts, tried early help, tried taking away screen time until behaviour improved. It never has worked. Anyway, I know kids who struggle see their parents as a safe space, but this feels too far like she's actively enjoying upsetting me and sees me as a complete idiot. She's called me a fucking mummy before repeatedly every day for a month, after I once accidentally let the f word slip, but saying f* sake on a particularly gruesome day. I never even said f-ing so I don't know how she even created that sentence. I told her it was a bad word and I had said it by accident in frustration and it was wrong of me, but she still persisted. Even when the local newspaper said they would start fining for swearing and I told her, it didn't stop it. She just eventually forgot after we had a holiday.
She has a good life. Sees friends, cinema, rainbows etc, holiday once a year. I don't over pack her days. We have lots of chill time. I offer her to read together, she doesn't want to. I started playing a bit of Roblox with her as that helped us to bond whilst we were playing as two different characters on desperate devices, but as soon as I get off, the hate starts again. Anyway, I'm just wondering if she's picked up on the fact my family don't really like me and are somewhat disrespectful of my boundaries in person on the few occasions I interact with them. She does go to my mum's some weekends when it gets too much and my mum is lovely to her (but not me, but I limit the interaction with my mum to about clothes, things for her bag, how shes been over the weekend and just hand her over, chat briefly and leave, before any hostility comes out towards me. My DD has said her grandma is nice to her and plays with her a bit and is always giggling when I call up to see how she is. Oh yeah that's the other thing, she's an absolute angel for everyone else and really good and going with the flow and following that person's rules or routine. If DD were kicking off and another person in a group were to say 'come on DD shall we make a bracelet?' DD would be happy to go over and join together and make bracelets. But if I suggested it, DD would say "no, I hate making bracelets" (when I know she loves it). She's only happy doing things with me if it's her suggestion- which is usually screen time, going to get McDonald's or hide n seek. All of which I have to limit. I can't play hide n seek all day.

No hate please for the essay, I've had a really rough week with DD and I'm on the edge.

I think your child should go back to school. All children struggle initially but I think you should persevere. This would give you time away from each other and she would learn some discipline from school.

Hey 👋 im not an expert but i have 5 children, 2 are autistic, she doesn’t hate you, all my kids have told me they hate me especially around that age 4/5/6, (except my nonverbal ds he just used to headbutt me in the face).
it seems like they are constantly doing things to cause you upset or worry but this is normal, they aren’t doing it on purpose to make you upset or worry, like pulling you over when she was 1 or climbing onto the stool- she doesn’t see the danger so isn’t aware you would be worried about it. Kids also lack a certain amount of empathy, my little girl (11 months) pinches me when she is tired, no amount of telling her ouch that hurts is going to stop her as she isn’t doing it on purpose, i feel like you see it as she is doing everything on purpose to upset you she isn’t-for example her running to get an icelolly after praising her not to- you probably just reminded her she wanted an ice lolly and kids are impulsive, so she ran to get one.
stop looking at her behaviour as she is out to get you, she is just being a normal stubborn 5 year old, punish the behaviour like purposely kicking you but stop assuming everything she does is just to make you upset, your post shows some lack of emotional maturity sorry to say, its sounds like my 9 year old moaning 11 month old poked her in the eye on purpose when she was just trying to boop her nose.

For the behaviour she is doing purposely like pulling your arms when you have told her they hurt- at that moment she is too wrapped up in her own emotions to care, she is 5 she doesn’t care in that moment when she is upset that you are hurting too, 5 year olds don’t really have much empathy, do you make her say sorry for hurting you? Kids generally only feel sorry after their own emotions aren’t clouding their actions- like when adults get into arguments and sometimes say things they don’t mean out of anger- when she does hurt you, punishment like naughty step/time out etc and then make her apologise, if she doesn’t she stays on the naughty step until she does, making her responsible for her actions by apologising will help her to realise them and maybe put a halt to them xx

Hey OP,
I think some of these comments are crazy despite probably meaning to be reassuring. This is not normal behaviour and you should not be putting up with this- no wonder you are posting on this forum- you must feel overwhelmed!
Your little one sounds similar to my daughter. Although my daughter has not physically hurt me she will purposely do things to cause me harm despite me always being kind to her. She is not like this to anyone else but me so I seem deranged explaining to others. My daughter has always been “independent” or rather “controlling”.
I considered she may have some sort of personality disorder such as BPD, or attachment issue with me.
As you do not have a good relationship with your family maybe you cannot recognise any attachement issues? You could look into this as a starting point?

Yes, this reminds me of DS when he was little.
i had to completely change how I parented and my life.
‘Raising a sensory smart Child’ was a book I found really useful. We also had a referral to a paediatric occupational therapist which was useful. Primary school was useless in terms of helping. As was DS’s dad (we separated) as he blamed me through the autism assessment. Fun times. There was no support.
I don’t think this is helpful to see through the lens of your entire previous life though. DD is five.

I'm sorry to hear you are struggling with your dd and I am sure the additional challenges of nd make this harder. I just wanted to say that it's very normal for your own children to be the most challenging for you, have their meltdowns with you, let out all their frustrations at you. This is because you are their safe space and it does mean you have done a good job of showing you love her unconditionally. I don't think it is anything as calculated as her picking up on how your family treat you.

Your family sound vile and if I were you I would cut all contact with them. It sounds to me like you haven't been treated well and this has left you emotionally a bit insecure. Remember, you are doing a great job with your dd but parenting is hard work and you have to repeat, repeat, repeat your expectations / boundaries calmly. It's often thankless, kids don't recognise what we do for them until they are much older.

Think about cutting off the family, seek support for your daughter through school and see if you can find some local SEN parents groups - try facebook, you might find more support parents who understand your challenges better there.

If you think there is a psychological issue with her take her to her GP, however in the meantime I would make sure she realises she never misses a day of school ever and you take her in come what may - absolute rule. Then you can get a job fitting around school hours and try not to think about her as you will be so busy working. Perhaps her father could have her for some weekends too so a bit of a weekend job with casual hours could be part of your schedule too. I think your own self respect will build and build the more you earn and advance in life. Not working is probably at the heart of your problems. This would also be consistent with this Government's new plan to get many many more people back into work which will benefit all of us.

If she's fine with other people but not you, then I suspect it's not autism or ADHD that's the problem, it's the lack of effective discipline you are having with her.

You can't change her behaviour but you can change your behaviour. That will have a run on effect on her. But remember, it has to be YOU who makes the change. Focus on what you are doing.

I would recommend watching some SuperNanny episodes with Jo Frost. Her time out method, when followed exactly, should work. It should take a few days (at least 3). I think this method may be the key to your problem.

It is completely unacceptable that your 5 year old is causing bruises and hitting you. She is absolutely old enough to know that behaviour is not okay. It's your job, for your own safety and for the safety of others, to teach her to stop it. It's entirely possible to do this with the right method. Follow the method exactly, be totally consistent.

I used to teach high school, classes up to 28, most kids bigger than me, so I understand how consistent you have to be for effective discipline. You have to be on point to have 28 kids pay attention and not misbehave for any learning to happen. My biggest takeaway from this experience is that discipline in a fair, firm and calm manner, is the MOST important first building block. It has to be on point for anything else to follow. If you're shouting or getting upset, you've already lost.

Kids push boundaries, that's their job. It's our job as parents (or educators) to show them the boundaries are fair and firm. To do this you have to keep in your head where the line is, they will constantly try to blur it. One way to do this is to think to yourself: if this behaviour DD exhibits were from one adult to another, would that be okay? Would it be legal? Eg. hitting another adult is never okay. Speaking disrespectfully is not okay. Have high expectations for her behaviour and follow through on enforcing it. Always.

Once you have the first couple of weeks under your belt it should get much easier.

Do it now while she's relatively small at 5 and you'll have much easier teenage years. Don't do it now and you'll have a nightmare coming up.

Good luck.

Yes. I'm no disciplinarian but no way would a dc of mine get away with hurting me like that. I honestly think parents are so caught up in " the right way to parent" that they're ignoring their natural responses. Children aren't overly complicated on most case, they need unconditional love and boundaries of acceptable behaviour. And maybe less words and more action? A smile is praise, a thumbs up, a hug. A now we've put the toys away so quickly we've got time to play this game/watch this tv/make hot chocolate.

Do your family get on with each other? If they do, and it’s only you they don’t get on with, you may well be the problem.

You seem to have a victim mentality that you’re now projecting onto a five year old. You need professional help and to stop blaming a child.

I think, and I don't mean this to be your fault - it could be a trauma response, that you might come across a bit detached or insincere. It sounds as if your DD is pushing to get a reaction from you, for example and kids do react badly to getting praise they feel you don't really mean.

I would actually consider having yourself assessed before DD, it might help you make sense of these interactions and relationships, that's been happening your whole life.

I did find it interesting that you only consider the travelling friends to be good people or true friends. They will have been carefree, with no expectations and no competing demands for their time and energy - the easiest versions of themselves. You can't compare everyone else to them, it sets them up to fail.

my thoughts exactly!

Have you heard of pathological demand avoidance syndrome (pda)? I have a child with it.

It’s a type of autism - although can be hard to assess as it’s not recognised by all health professionals yet.

So my dd hates all demands, even demands she makes on herself, so she might want to do something but physically be unable. She won’t accept praise, punishment, consequences and if I tried to use traditional parenting techniques would get disregulated. I have also been hurt and even as a toddler she had the strength of an ox. Her nervous system just can’t cope with demands. Children with pda can seem ‘manipulative’ and sociable compared to what the stereotypical view of an autistic child is. So dd would be sociable, play with friends, get eye contact but afterwards there’s be an explosive meltdown from all the effort. She also has no idea of consequences and if I told her not to do something because it might get broken she’d see it as a demand and would still do it until the thing got broken. She has very low self esteem because she doesn’t like her behaviour or being told off.

i would go to the pda society website for more information and try to get an assessment. Write down examples of her behaviour or keep notes on your phone and maybe keep a log of what has set her off although it’s not always easy to tell). There could also be sensory issues which you haven’t noticed (my dd hates the kitchen spotlights so we eat in near darkness with no sounds on) and Google other senses like interoception and proprioception where she might be different to other children.

Im having to home school my dd through her GCSEs because it was too much for her. She’s much better at regulating now and is no longer violent but it has taken a long time to get to this place.

i hope this helps.

OP I can hear how sad you are.
Your DD sounds very like my eldest. He is AuADHD.

He was very violent as a small child but this was intermittedly dispersed with moments of love.

The very best advice I ever got was too completely ignore the bad behaviour and respond positively to any good behavior.

My son didn't quite understand my reactions to things the way the way my children did. I believe this is because of the autism and the struggle he has with understanding the way the world works

He therefore created situations where he was fascinated with how people behaved. This led to him acting out and saying mean things are doing mean things to get a reaction. He repeatedly did things as this is also quite common.

The ignoring the bad and praising the good was so successful. He is now a wonderful young adult. We have a great relationship most if the time.
Good luck it is tough on your own 💐

I would gently push back on this.

It's very common for neurodivergent children to mask heavily in school and around other people, seeming very calm and compliant, but then meltdown due to the pressure and the amount of energy this takes when at home where they feel safe.

Neurodivergence/PDA is possible and you can look into and try some parenting strategies that are suitable for this with or without a diagnosis.

I don’t think overall that this is normal behaviour for a 5 year old. It sounds incredibly stressful / draining / relentless and because you have no support and she is your daughter you can’t just walk away from it. It’s shit! Don’t listen to the posters above minimising the behaviour. As a parent you know when something is off.

If she isn’t showing this kind of behaviour at school then they won’t be of any help. I would book in to speak to your GP about it. Perhaps before this I would keep a behaviour log for a week about every little thing that she does, including what has happened before the behaviour so that you / a professional can start working out what is going on and if there’s any triggers. I would also film what I could of it so people can see what she is like (will help to build an unbiased picture).

I am going through the same with my 5 year old. He is the youngest of three so I have experience of going through this age twice before and, while it’s hard, it’s not meant to be this hard. School have noticed emotional disregulation, sensory issues, and wanting to play on his own a lot…but because he is doing fine academically they are not referring for any assessment. My plan is to talk to GP and if necessary book him some play therapy sessions so I can talk to some professionals and see if they would recommend further assessment. You might want to read about how autism and adhd presents in girls, also about Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

i hope you get some answers x

Been a few comments here about personality disorders. Just coming over here as a former CAMHS psychologist to say that we don't diagnose those in five year olds.

Completely agree with this. The masking is real. And it makes it hard for people outside the family to see all the issues. My children are all fine in school but when they come out of school they often burst into tears / cling to me / physically crumble down on the playground by my feet. I’m often walking down the hill to the car park with two of them clinging to me, wailing. I am a strong, kind mother who is doing a good job raising them yet they still behave like this! It’s beyond all of our control.

I find a warm filling snack like a warm sausage roll / cup of soup / hot chocolate then a bath grounds and calms them down. Then we can get on with our afternoon/evening in a much better mood. However not always possible with after school clubs, play dates etc.

I do tend to roll my eyes a bit when people bring up Jo Frost and the Naughty Step. That was 30 yrs ago. Things have moved on.

If she's fine with other people but not you, then I suspect it's not autism or ADHD that's the problem,
Wrong. There is this thing called masking whereby it is VERY common, especially in GIRLS with Autism/ADHD for them to be fine with everyone except their parents.

OP,
I agree with posters suggesting you take your DD for ND assessment. I also agree you should also seek trauma therapy because it appears you are have trauma responses to your DD’s challenging behaviour. She isn’t out to hurt you or get you, she isn’t disrespecting you- basically you are unintentionally reacting to her as if she were one of your abusers. This can be hard to identify and adjust without trauma therapy.

I have a DD that was similar to your DD. Autistic with Oppositional Defiance Disorder (a step up from PDA). At age 4 she once trashed her entire room, tearing apart pillows, smashing things, breaking the door because all her socks “had bumps in them” (bumps only she could feel). She also went through two years thinking she was a puppy and would say hello by biting us on the arm. Anything we asked her to do, she would refuse point blank and she was clever enough such that reverse requests did not work either. We had to make every little thing into a menu of choices and let her choose but deliberately exclude bad choices. As she got older, we had hours of exhausting conversations about social rules and the way things are…teenage years were exhausting. Yes she did often say she hated us (and her siblings), but it we learned it was more of a “I can’t talk GO AWAY” tactic to end a conversation. Punishments often did not work when she was young as she did not understand what she had done wrong until much older.

Well, just saying you are not alone! And really your child doesn’t mean to disrespect or hurt you. Please don’t take things so personally. Playing games with her as you have done is a good way to bond- so long as you agree with whatever she says the rules are!

I think your consequences of her helping you clean up a mess are the right way to do things. Punishments /taking away things never worked for my DD. It only bred resentment. Sometimes though I’d leave the mess until she was calm and emotionally regulated and then cheerily say oh let’s get this sorted so we can have room to play or have a lovely Bath time or make some yummy food.

She does go to my mum's some weekends when it gets too much and my mum is lovely to her (but not me, but I limit the interaction with my mum to about clothes, things for her bag, how shes been over the weekend and just hand her over, chat briefly and leave, before any hostility comes out towards me. My DD has said her grandma is nice to her and plays with her a bit and is always giggling when I call up to see how she is.

I would be massively concerned about what's being said to your DD while you're not there.

If your Mum is awful to you why do you allow her unsupervised visits with your daughter?

I'd put money on that being part of the issue if the only time she really hears family talking to to you is someone likely to be massively bad mouthing you

I think because of your own upbringing and sense of being mistreated and hypersensitivity to that, you have always ascribed to her intentions around her behaviour that she didn't have, and as a result she doesn't feel psychologically safe with you.

A one year old learning to walk pulls hair because it's there and graspable. They aren't trying to pull you over or intending to hurt you. She perhaps has a history of you ascribing ill intent to her actions and now that is what she does as it's predictable.

Try to stop thinking of yourself as a victim here. No lengthy explanations. She knows pushing is not kind. You don't need to explain that it hurts each time. Just tell her "no, we don't push" and remove yourself. Its like you are expecting the worst. For example, on hold on phone I would have put the telly on during the wait and just said "I just have to take this call, you watch TV and after we can have milk and a biscuit" then I would have stepped out. Knowing that she would find it tricky I wouldn't have been waiting in a dangerous space doing an activity that requires you to be directly engaging with her. Does that make sense?

Btw none of what I say above is changed whether or not she is neurodivergent.

OP. It sounds like you are looking for others around you to be telling your DD off and sorting this problem for you when that isnt going to happen. I dont know why you are allowing a 5yr old to hurt you, you should stop her before she is able to?

Reading between the lines of your posts you seem to take an awful lot very personally - seemingly everyone who's ever been in your life has either been 'toxic' or disrespected' you - do you think you might have an issue in how you perceive your interactions with those around you?
You attribute your daughters behaviour back to her 'wanting to frighten you' or actively wanting to hurt you but i think maybe you are reading into things too much, and maybe thats also affected your relationships with others in the past? I amazed you even remember her pulling you over as a toddler they do that sort of thing inadvertently all the time?

The tone of your posts is very 'everyone is awful to me, nobody helps me, nobody backs me up, i am very much the victim'..... I think you need to expect less of others around you as its colouring your relationships.
Focus on what you yourself can do about this

so they take it out on their parents so the parent is covered in bruises?

that is absolutely not okay, and I will stand by my original comment that if OP does not sort this out when DD is 5 she will have a nightmare when DD is a teen

comments like yours make me wonder if you think it's okay for a ND child to be so violent to their parent that the parent is covered in bruises, and I do not think this is okay