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7 year old is controlling and rage-filled

50 replies

JunglistRaver · 18/11/2024 11:21

Hi,

I'm at the end of my tether with my 7 year old DD and desperate for advice, please.

She flies off the handle into a terrible rage over the most trivial issue. It normally relates to control...she feels she HAS to be in control. It's like she has never grown out of the "but I wanted a blue cup, not a red cup/I want to do it myself" toddler tantrum phase?
She is violent, aggressive, yells and screams and says dreadful things. She destroys things in the house. She is constantly yelling at me to shutup and shoving me out of her bedroom - kicking me or pushing me. (We are not physical with her).

This morning, we didn't go the way to school that she wanted so she shoved me into the road twice, and tried to run away.

Eg I open her curtains, she closes them. I turn a light on when she wanted to do it: she will turn in off again to turn it on herself.

She is good as gold at school, she is a bright girl. I have raised the difficult behaviour at home with a teacher once and they were gobsmacked. She seems to have friends and enjoys school and the 2 hobbies she does after school.

I do try and built choice into her day, I try to give her autonomy but the challenges generally relate to getting ready for school. And if we only have 10 minutes til we leave and teeth aren't brushed etc etc then of course, I have to tell her.

I think part of it is separation anxiety? But I am failing. Some mornings I dread going into her bedroom. I am on eggshells all the time. I wake up in a good mood and BAM, I am getting yelled at or told to go away because I have done something benign like pick something up from the floor.

I've tried:

  • Jollying along, turning it into a laugh (often works but I feel so fake and it is a massive effort to do it)
  • Reward chart. Doesn't work. She wants to be the one to control it. Will remove stars, want to do her own stickers, etc, she takes it over and it defeats the point and becomes frustrating.
  • Punishments. I try not to do this in the heat of the moment but sometimes the threat of screen ban/not going somewhere might work. But frankly she would have nothing left and we'd go nowhere with the way she is some days. If we confiscate something from her, she has now started doing this to us.
  • Gentle...I try to be a bit more "gentle parenting" sometimes. Offer her a hug, say you are angry, etc, but she tends to lash out. I think she prefers to be left alone and it helps not to blow it up tbh. I don't like feeling like she is "getting away" with the way she treats us too?
  • Good inside Dr Becky. It just doesn't feel "me". I couldn't move her somewhere safe in a tantrum, she would injure me.
  • Threatened to phone teacher etc. Just winds her up.
  • Anger techniques. I have tried to teach her deep breathing, count to 10, we wrote our own little booklets. I say I get angry too. But she just loses her head - frequently - straight to 10.
It makes my parenting very inconsistent because I am trying all these different approaches and I am just so god damn worn down. She's been like this since she started nursery around 6 years ago. Her temper does not seem to improve.

Of course she is not like this all the time; sometimes we can go a few weeks of excellent behaviour. Then sometimes it's every day, multiple times a day, losing her shit. I do love her very much, we spend a lot of time together and we are very close, but, combined with other things I have got going on, are pushing me over the brink. I blame myself and just do not know what to do.

HELP
PLEASE

OP posts:
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Beamur · 18/11/2024 11:25

She sounds highly demand avoidant.
Often linked to ASD or ADHD. But I'm not an expert (although have a pretty demand avoidant ASD DD myself)
Some of the parenting strategies around that might nonetheless be helpful.

Beamur · 18/11/2024 11:28

I'm not surprised it's an inconsistent reaction from her btw. You might just need to look closely at what combination of factors seem to trigger it more and see what you can do to reduce those.
When DD was that age things like being hungry, being around people for too long, noise, dogs, etc would gradually get DD more tired and overwhelmed. Losing anything would send her into a meltdown.

mikado1 · 18/11/2024 11:30

It definitely sounds like ND could be a possibility, as mentioned by pp. However I think also could be in the more typical realm, especially as you acknowledge there's not been a consistent approach.
Have you tried talking to her when things are calm and you two are close? Ask her what would help her mornings? Do some problem solving together, write them down, explain why some ideas won't work. Let her know you want to help and support her and you don't want these stressful mornings all the time. Name the feelings that might be there - anxiety about school/separation etc, name it to tame it, as they say. This is incredibly effective.
In terms of being consistent in your approach, remember what you've said above - rewards and sanctions don't work - try not to react in the moment and discuss later. Keep going until you can find the best fit for her. I had an explosive child who is doing so so well now. Our close relationship has been key, I have no doubt of that. Wishing you the best.

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/11/2024 11:50

Her intense need for control and the way that she is triggered by you doing something she doesn't expect (like opening her curtains or picking something off the floor) makes me wonder about possible ASC as well. On the one hand she's fine in school, but on the other hand some children can "mask" in school and it all comes out at home.

Choice and autonomy are good. So are timetables especially visual timetables. Would a picture card list of things she has to do in the morning help her to get through the morning routine? (Clothes, toothbrush, breakfast....) Then she can do it herself without needing you to remind her, which seems to be a trigger.

This kind of aggression is often fuelled by anxiety. Which doesn't necessarily mean there's something huge in her life she's worried about, but her anxiety might be triggered disproportionately just by those little unexpected things, or by having to hurry in the morning, etc., and then the aggression starts.

I also found leaving my own DC to calm down and recover by himself worked best. Rewards and punishments didn't work (they raise anxiety) Anger management is good but your DD is probably a bit young to do it successfully.

Try looking at Explosive Child - good for kids who fly off over trivia and not linked to any specific diagnosis. It's aimed at calm and problem-solving rather than rewards and punishments.

ByHardyRubyEagle · 18/11/2024 12:39

I would say it’s more than likely this behaviour is coming from an underlying anxiety. Some people are suggesting possible neurodivergence, which I don’t think is a bad avenue to explore here, but it might be something along the lines of SEMH rather than a specific ND condition.

You say she is good as gold at school so I would be unsure of the separation anxiety theory. What does she get at school that she doesn’t get at home? Routine? Rules? Perhaps it is that she thrives on the routine of school, but at home there seems to be a lack of fixed rules and routine which sets off the anxiety? Not saying you don’t have some sort of routine at home but school is very different environment.

Conversely it could be the other way around where unexplored ND could be causing her to let all her emotions loose once she’s at home after she’s been masking all day long at school.

Offering choice is not as simple as literally giving a choice, with my autistic son it’s also about choosing how much of a big deal you make things, and it’s also a lot about language usage, for example removing rigid demands and requests and simply rephrasing them, so really your daughter doesn’t actually have a choice, but feels as though she does. It’s a tricky balance and you just have to see what works.

You said you went a different way to school, so this could be an opportunity to see if a sudden change in routine is making her anxious. You mentioned she requested to go a certain way and you didn’t. This might well have been too short notice for her to process this change in routine for example, so try and think ahead and mitigate circumstances that are likely to come up. Try talking it through with her the night before if you feel this issue might crop up.

Talk to school and really get it across to them that there are some issues with her behaviour and they might look at possible SENH and neurodivergence from their end.

LadyGabriella · 18/11/2024 12:47

You need a professional to assess for possible ASD diagnosis.

TinyMouseTheatre · 18/11/2024 13:13

My DD was exactly like this at 7 only with added random tummy pains which later turned out to be anxiety.

We even had the same surprised reaction from a Teacher and a SENCO laugh when I asked for an assessment for her.

She's since been diagnosed as AuDHD amongst a couple of other co-existing conditions.

Is do this simple progress checker. Read The Explosive Child and ask your GP for a referral for assessment Flowers

TinyMouseTheatre · 18/11/2024 13:20

And I know it's already been raised but she really does sound demand avoidant.

Have a look at techniques for helping DC with PDA.

You might also want to go and have a look in the SN Children Section and ask about getting an ECHP and what they might include and the assessment process for ASD/ADHD Flowers

JunglistRaver · 19/11/2024 09:21

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond - I really appreciate it.

I didn't mention in the post that she has a teenage half-sister on Dad's side who has been diagnosed with PDA. It has crossed my mind before but because they are SO different; chalk and cheese; I had put it down to strong-willed behaviour. The teenager tends to go into shutdown/statue and the 7 yo is an exploder. (Explosive is indeed a great description and I've ordered the book now.)

Spoke to school this morning - her teacher was gobsmacked and said she is one of the top students and they wished they had a whole class like her; but said they will discuss with SEN lead.

I think I might begin to keep a diary of events. Good days/harder days.

When I stop to think about it, I feel like I am strategising ALL the time. What to say so as not to set her off. How to reply so I don't get shouted at. Dreading telling her to stop doing something because of how she might react.

I suppose I've always thought it was behavioural because she is incredibly strong willed...and I guess we are similar personalities. I also put my hands up and say I don't think my inconsistency has helped or I have always reacted in the best way. I went to boarding school so I'm unpicking and re-parenting myself at the same time. We have a wonderful relationship however she is very challenging to parent at times.

Thank you again for your replies.

OP posts:
mikado1 · 19/11/2024 09:34

Glad you have gone back to the school about it OP. Explosive for sure is the word. I know it. As I say my ds was the same but no longer, can still overreact but it's rare now and much less in intensity etc. I do think time and approach makes a massive difference. He has not been diagnosed with anything and life is wonderful for him right now (13). Long may it continue. Keep posting. Think first limits with soft padding. Lots of chat outside of the tougher times, lots of closeness. The relationship is the intervention and that was certainly true for us here.
If it is helpful to post specific incidents etc, do. I completely recognise that feeling of fire fighting and being afraid to say no etc. V hard and stressful, I used to feel like I'd been hit by a bus after those episodes.

ScrollingLeaves · 19/11/2024 09:58

Try the book
“Transforming the Difficult Child. The Nurtured Heart Approach.”

I think it is very helpful indeed ( but ignored the ‘time out’ which I do not agree with, and think it does not matter to ignore this as the point is to emphasise the positive.)

JunglistRaver · 19/11/2024 10:00

Thanks @mikado1 , it's so helpful to hear of other peoples experiences. I'm glad your son is in a calmer place now.

Yes, the episodes are utterly draining. It's also hard having to almost pre-plan an interaction so it doesn't result in a battle. I'm also having group therapy for PTSD at the moment so my cup is kinda empty and I'm questioning myself generally. (Some might say that's the cause of her behaviour but she's been this way really since 18 months old; my PTSD is from childhood/being sent to boarding school)

I think I'll write a diary and then it's something to observe on. It's so tempting to react in the moment so I need to keep remembering to not get drawn in and discuss later when things are calm.

OP posts:
Quacking4it · 19/11/2024 10:19

She sounds like what I am going through with my DS8. We are referred to CAHMS but in the meantime, the attached link has some good ideas to phrasing requests differently so it doesnt sound like they are being 'told' to do something... I know its really hard. Good luck
https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Positive-PDA-booklet.pdf

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Positive-PDA-booklet.pdf

Lifeglowup · 19/11/2024 10:22

Time to ask for some outside. Speak to school SENCO and GP. They will be able to sign post you to services in your area. In ours they is lots on offer but you need to push for help.

Oneearringlost · 19/11/2024 10:28

Oh, OP, nothing to add, just sending a hug, you sound exhausted. X

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 19/11/2024 10:30

I have one of these, nearly 9 now. It is improving although it ebbs and flows. Things that have helped is staying calm (as much as I can - I am not perfect). Modelling good, calm, fair behaviour. Massively praising the good stuff. Acknowledging the effort that is put in at school and how a whole day of wonderful behaviour is hard! Focusing on a hobby they enjoy outside of school so they have fun and discipline, team work and all that good life skill building stuff. Allowing independence where you can as they push for it but also recognising a lot of us has anxiety just underneath so don’t push them away.

it’s really really hard and I only manage it because I’m part time and can devote an awful lot of time and head space to it. I started at 4 years of age so we are five years in.

JunglistRaver · 19/11/2024 10:32

Thanks so much @Oneearringlost , willingly accepted.

I will keep following up with school, and I'll read both those books recommended. I have used the PDA website before for my teenage stepdaughter so I'll try and adapt for the 7 yo as well. (They are just both such different characters, SD not at all explosive). It's not easy.

OP posts:
Happyinarcon · 19/11/2024 10:39

What’s she like over school holidays? My daughter got really difficult during some awful times at school. Different child when I took her out altogether

Oppenjam · 19/11/2024 10:50

I could have written this about my 7 year old dd op. I actually recently described it to someone that it was like she never grew out the toddler ‘i
do it’ phase. I’ve also tried many things and been through so many emotions with this. Currently I’m trying to ‘pick my battles’. So I go her way on the pavement, let her do the lights etc. When it’s dinner time/ bed time I say ‘we need to go upstairs now/ sit at the table’ once and then I don’t ask again. Because if I do she’ll lie on the floor and scream/ refuse to do what I asked, but I’ve found if I ask once then ignore her/ take the pressure off she’ll do it. It’s hard because she has 2 siblings but I hate the constant conflict. I’ve also looked at PDA.
She does tend to mask at school, but recently there have been some occasions where she has had huge tantrums about being told to stop playing with things etc. So they’ve started seeing the behaviour and the teacher has agreed it is
worth speaking with the Senco, hoping for a meeting soon. I think she def has anxiety and I think OCD which a lot of this behaviour stems from. It’s so hard!

Skybluepinky · 19/11/2024 11:07

Take her to GP.

Ivannabreakfreey · 19/11/2024 11:31

Is the half sister actually autistic and so your hdh has asd too or traits?

Your 7 year old could be anxious or ocd.
My 2 present very differently the eldest never behaved at school but by school age did tend to shut down rather than tantrum. Very much a pda profile and on asd and adhd waitlist
The 9yo behaves at school but explodes at home. However... There are signs of asd starting to creep in at school

  • Crying, getting frustrated, perfectionist, friend issues (they are starting to drift away and dd9 cant cope with too much time with other)

Both have sensory issues with hair and teeth and youngest with socks.

JunglistRaver · 19/11/2024 11:36

Half-sister is AuDHD with PDA profile.
Husband has zero autistic traits.

Hmm, 7 yo also has sensory issues/preferences with tights/socks...

OP posts:
SprigatitoYouAndIKnow · 19/11/2024 11:49

Sounds very much like pda. Very classic for girls in particular to behave well at school and then explode at home from the effort of keeping it together all day. Only a professional can confirm though. If school won't refer her, discuss right to choose with your gp.

LostittoBostik · 19/11/2024 11:56

This is timely for me. I have a very similar 7yo. I've been wondering about ASD and I think it's probably time for me to start asking questions.

TinyMouseTheatre · 19/11/2024 12:03

Husband has zero autistic traits.

He might not have any obvious ones. I don't remember what the stats are but I think it's pretty unlikely that he's got two ND DDs from different Women both is he's NT.

That doesn't really matter though. What does matter is getting your DD the support she needs.

We had the same incredulity from the Primary School and the SEN actually laughed when I raised the possibly of DD being ND with them.

Your DD could be masking. Some people with ASD can be quite compliant and I know that our Primary misjudged this compliance as wanted behaviour rather than seeing that the child was actually struggling.

We found the GP much more responsive and they did the referrals needed.

Before you go to the GP or speak to the SEN I'd do this simple progress checkerr*.

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