Is there any literature which recommends punishment based parenting?

[unlikelychump]

Dh thinks we need to remove more privileges and be harsher to our children to get them to argue, shout and fight with each other less.

I have asked him to point me at a credible source which recommends this sort of approach. I am just wondering if there is one. (Yes there is a backstory, so you have kick me for a dripfeed later, if anyone has replied)

Jane Eyre?
David Copperfield?

No

Super nanny?

Not that I now agree with that approach

There was a sleep book I forget name of that recommended crying it out

Is he thinking of Victorian work houses, perhaps?

Not much info to go on...

But punishments and consequences are not the same. There's plenty to be said for "Nice kids get nice things, wee bastards get fuck all..."

🤷🏻‍♀️

Punishment based or consequences? I think boundaries and consequences are surely normal parenting?

It's part and parcel of life that certain behaviours lead to certain consequences 🤷‍♀️

Mommy Dearest?

Seriously, surely if you model harsh behaviour you will get harsh behaviour back. What does he mean by 'harsh'? Does he want to frighten them into behaving?

There's a difference between punishment and natural consequences. There's a lot of literature around natural consequences being a good thing. Eg don't put shoes on, walk out on to the cold/wet/minging pavement. Don't wear your coat, get cold. Scream when the ninetendo goes off, we don't turn the ninetendo on.

It sounds like whatever approach you have used isn't working, so why not try something else?

I think he kind of means consequences but he hasn't ever understood the idea of natural consequences. So it would be things like - if you don't get into bed nicely I won't read your bedtime story or come and say good night to you.

Lol at some of the replies. Possibly the Supernanny style but I lot less organised and a lot more as hoc.

Yes, he wants to shout at them until they change their ways.

What does he mean by punishment? If my 5 year old persistently misbehaves she loses her TV time that day. That's a punishment & not a natural consequence but I don't think it's wildly draconian, it seems like common sense to me? What's he proposing and what's your objection?

@unlikelychump think he will have a long wait with that approach 🫤

If you waste time getting into bed there won't be time for a story, that's fair. We usually have 3 and cut it to 1 or 2 if there's dicking about.

Not saying night is mean.

Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother...advocates the "superiority" of a particular, very strict, ethnically defined approach to parenting.

There are loads of long threads on here by teachers who think that parents are being far too slack about discipline at home these days.

But kids/teens can really be quite feral at home sometimes and if you really put the foot down then the conflict can get quite fraught.

I find that getting the balance right can be quite challenging.

I think the rule that works here is "know your child(ren)". It takes a huge amount of work and dedication to get it right, especially if you have a complicated one.

Cause and effect.
Pocket money paid after jobs done Saturday morning ...room tidied dishwasher emptied. No jobs no pocket money ...effect? No money to go out with mates
Lots of agro to mum ...effect? Mum not prepared to spend time doing drop offs and collections . Expectation of courtesy from kids then they can expect the type of consideration from me that takes up my free time. No shouting needed. Polite explanation of expectations. Polite meeting of their expectations in return. Equally polite No can't do if my expectations aren't met. Sometimes results in banged doors ..sad ...but how can that alter cause and effect. 🤔 Usually results in quick return to better attitude and helpfulness. Teenagers especially are pretty selfish and transactional. Think this approach can be adapted to other issues like bickering between themselves. Not punishment ..just logical cause and effect

The drip feed is that the kids are acting out because their dad is having a mental health moment and he and I are arguing. They are unable to deal with their feelings

In addition 2 are autistic. If you change the routine, there ain't no one going to bed in this household.

It's hard to know what you mean. But I haven't really ever read anything that say authoritarian parents works well for either improving behaviour or long term mental health.

I always think what does shouting do. It shows a child that to get your own way or to express anger you shout. It's hardly going to make them shout at thier sibling less.

Which all sounds a lot more complex than a difference in parenting styles.

Oh he needs to get support for his mental health and do a parenting course focused on asd. Something like cygnet.

Quite. Dh is coming at it from the other side - that if we were stricter with them then things would be easier and we wouldn't fight and then his mental health would be ok.

Yes, there are lots of horrible books that advocate harsh, inflexible discipline and punishment. They're very popular in fundamentalist American church circles. Keep your husband well away from them!

He's a bully and a fool. I would be telling him that he either enrols himself in parenting classes and sorts his attitude out, or he finds somewhere else to live. Your kids only get one childhood.

Oh no- so actually your DH wants to punish the kids for the behaviourally expressed anxiety and distress the children are experiencing, due to his poor mental health and your marital disputes?

Cracking.

I think if you have the resources, some support for you from a therapist - because evidently you are the one holding the family unit together- would be useful. Perhaps family therapy when your DH’s underlying MH issue is under control.

In your OP he wants to "remove privileges" and now it's "shout at them". Very different things

It's obvious you don't want to change your approach and don't like what he is suggesting, but it sounds like you need a proper conversation about what he wants the approach to be so you understand his pov. Then work together to find a common solution.

Posting on MN in order to back up your opinion (eg calling it "punishment based parenting") is unlikely to be conducive to finding a effective solution

Just seen your update. If it’s not his poor mental health talking, I’d actually go see a solicitor about a divorce tbh.