Worried about teen's sense of entitlement

[Dontlletmedownbruce]

DS is 17 and generally a good kid from an outsider perspective - good grades, doesn't go out partying or get into trouble etc. He was always demanding, he came into the world that way I think. I remember saying when he wasn't even 2 that he was a real risk for becoming a spoilt brat. I won't go into it all here but we read book after book, I attended a parenting course and we sought every help we could to deal with constant demands. We did not give in or change our mind or undermine each other. It went from tantrums as a young child to repeatedly asking in an attempt to wear us down, to manipulation or lying. These days its nothing like that just a constant demand for more, more money, more lifts etc. We say no and we keep saying no and he will just ask again and get really angry about it. If its something we say yes to and he is happy I can guarantee he will ask for something else 5 minutes later, he always always pushes his luck. It has really damaged our relationship and we barely talk anymore because it involves him asking, me saying no or offering a compromise, him getting angry then maybe eventually agreeing to the compromise. When it comes to personal freedom I would say we have been quite liberal, more than some of our peers and to be fair he has always respected the limits we set, for example if he is allowed go out but needs to be home at a set time. He is very independent and doesn't ask us to manage his life, he also has a part time job now.

Part of the problem (if you want to call it a 'problem') is that we have a high income and I am home most of the time too. If he asks for something and I say its too expensive, he will accuse me of being tight. If he asks for a lift and I say get the bus he will say I'm doing nothing anyway only sitting around and I should be driving him. i should add he gets plenty pocket money and gets plently lifts too when appropriate. There were a couple of things recently that made me realise this is a very deep seated sense of entitlement. I overheard him talking with a friend about wanting something, he said 'I can be very persuasive, I always get what I want in the end'. He was genuinely gobsmacked when I told him he would have to buy his own car when he started working, he thought we would just buy him one. I could give 100 different examples.

Does anyone have this situation and what can I do about it, if anything. Do I just keep saying no and hope one day he improves? I feel I have really tried not to spoil him. Are some people just like this all their lives? DH feels he has a cousin who is like this too and nothing can change him. I feel I'll end up hating him and our relationship will always be difficult.

I should add, he has a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD, he is very high functioning to the point that its easy forget its there at all. This may be part of the issue. He masks all day and can be grumpy and angry when he gets home. I accept that but the demanding thing is what I'm really concerned about.

I think his diagnosis is a lot to do with this. I'm not sure what you can do though other than keep saying no and not giving in. Very tricky.

Unusual for a 17 year old to have a curfew, but is that due to his SNs?

Hopefully maturity will change him!

When he said, 'I can be very persuasive, I always get what I want in the end' he was lying wasn't he, because he doesn't. The car for example.

I'd just keep pushing back, especially as he has a job and can pay for the things he wants himself.

My brother has a diagnosis of ASD and much of what you say about your son resonates with me. If he doesn't get what he wants he is objectionable. He's in his 40s now and nothing has changed him...he is the same now as he was when he was a child.

You don’t mention chores. Does he actually do anything for the benefit of other people, and if so how willingly? Entitlement and lack of empathy seem to go together - is he thoughtful and caring?

I think you need to get tougher, in general, even if he is a “good kid”, but he needs to know what it feels like to help as well as being helped.

His diagnosis has everything to do with this. To add it as a afterthought suggests you don't really think it's an issue when it clearly is.

He isnt entitled he is logical and that is totally from his autism.

You sat at home means to him you are free, so why should he go on a bus which is unpredictable, his other people on it or might be a bit smelly?

He knows you are well of ad have the money for the things he wants but won't buy it,therefore to him that's tight as you could buy it.

That's not to say he isn't being manipulative, but it really is all to do with his diagnosis and are pretty textbook behaviours

Can you agree with him a set regular allowance and certain number of lifts. And say that is non negotiable. He has to manage within those limits and budget accordingly. Can save, spend, carry over , but no more.

it's really hard. I agree that the diagnosis might be part of it. I think very clear guidelines that are consistent and clearly articulated is helpful becuase then you just stick to it without any drama. "No, I've told you before that you need to take responsibility for getting around during the day by yourself - that's our agreement. It doesn't matter that from your perspective I am free to drive you right now." "This is your allowance and these are the things you need to pay for with it. Outside of that, we will pay for x or y under A or B condition, but it's entirely at our discretion."

@FrenchandSaunders it's not a curfew per se but just certain restrictions depending on where he is going. Text us at a certain time, don't miss the last bus etc.

@Queensguide thanks, I don't know if it's a good or bad thing to hear about your brother!

@DoorOpening yes he has chores but probably not enough and they are always used as leverage for me, eg I won't drive the car until you finish the chore. They are entirely self serving though. When he got his job he announced he wouldn't do chores any more because he no longer needed pocket money! That was another argument.

@Lotsofthings that's what we try to do. He trains constantly and needs lifts, it's very awkward otherwise. We do these without asking, it's extra stuff that causes problems. Like he wants to get a roll at the shop around the corner but doesn't feel like going himself so asks me to drive him

@Singleandproud Thanks for that it's an interesting perspective. Its hard to know when the personality ends and diagnosis begins. My other DS also has autism and is very different so maybe I am minimising how much of it is this.

This.

Just because he says you are tight doesn't mean you need to give him what he wants. Just because he thinks you ought to jump when he calls does not mean you must.

That is not how parenting works.

(I don't mean that to sound harsh. It's just that making too many allowances constantly for X or Y condition doesn't always do the child/teenager any favours in the long run - it can leave them very ill equipped for real life)

Wow.
The world is gonna hit him really hard one day.

Like he wants to get a roll at the shop around the corner but doesn't feel like going himself so asks me to drive him

DS has ADHD. He might ask, but he's already learnt that I'd probably just laugh at him! I think that children ALWAYS push boundaries, they're intrinsically selfish and self absorbed. our job, whether they're NT or ND is to help them learn what is and is not acceptable. So it's okay for him to ask. It's even okay for him to think you're a bit mean for refusing. But it's totally okay for you to continue to say no becuase you know that it's perfectly reasonable.

He knows you are well of ad have the money for the things he wants but won't buy it, therefore to him that's tight as you could buy it.
Mhm, it's not really very logical thinking though is it? There are 100 other reasons why mother won't buy him a car, even though she has the money. One is to ensure he knows the value of money and that he will have to learn to work to get something. It's limited and reductive thinking, that get's stuck in a loop at the first possible interpretation of the first fact that occurs to him, not logical thinking, which would require reasoning, analysing and considering a range of available facts.

I read your first post and immediately thought this may be undiagnosed ASD as my DS can be similar. He is not yet diagnosed but we have an assessment booked.

Then I read your second post. I'm sure that this will be related to his diagnosis.

My DS has a very kind heart in many situations which he comes across but which have nothing to do with him, however in others he appears to have no understanding of the impact of his own behaviour on people around him. I have tried to strike a balance between accommodating his needs and preparing him for the real world which won't be quite so accommodating.

I think we have coped because DH is very similar (he admits undiagnosed traits of ASD) so understands him better than I do and has made many more allowances. I have accepted this and stepped back to protect my relationship with DS.

I am autistic and I was never entitled. Let’s not assume that this is always an autistic trait please!

When I started reading your thread I thought Asd and ADHD and sure enough further on you said this.My grandson is the same always asking for something it is exhausting.Hopefully he gets the message one day but keep on saying no.

No one is making that assumption here. Just giving personal experience. Everyone's experience of autism is different but some people do share characteristics and this is what the OP is asking about.

What would happen if you told him that when you say no you mean no,
and you find it rude that he can't accept you decision, so in future every time he disputes your 'no' decision he has to face a penalty of your choice ... grounded/£1 off pocket money/a job to do.

I wouldn't consider ND people like this to be "entitled". That's what th ebehaviour looks like. but really, it's about a lack of udnerstanding.

Have you actually sat him down and explained how finances work? He's not too young to understand how the world works. Also how being part of the family means doing his bit (yes it was a mistake to assign money to doing chores). He should be helping out because it benefits him too. You all have jobs in the house and XYZ are his jobs.
And explain just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

When l read your initial post l immediately thought ADHD..then you added it in. My ds has an adult diagnosis but he has always been like this. We are middle of the road in finance/ lifts/ buying stuff but he still always pushed the boat. In so many other ways he was fantastic. I remember as a 17 year old a guy in his class was selling his car and ds decided it was a great opportunity for him. He genuinely thought l would buy it. Luckily l was 100% certain that wasn't happening but he couldn't accept that. It caused war but l stood strong. It wasn't easy and l have to admit on smaller issues l have given in as l hadn't the energy. My dh is a complete black and white thinker and he just says No..no discussion. Its the dopamine thing..always seeking it. I had to decide not to hold it against him so watch that for the sake of the relationship..unconditional love. Remember if he had a physical disability you would make allowance. I found having one sentence and keep saying it..l am not prepared to do that. ( whether its a lift/ money etc) As soon as you debate the battle is lost.
He would actually give me the shirt off his back but genuinely could not understand as a teenager why l wouldn't do the same. If he had money he would give it to anyone who needed it but expected the same from me.
He has improved with age but not totally!!
My other two rarely asked me for a thing and were so appreciative when they did. So it's not the parenting..l think!

This isn't personality this is his asd/adhd.

The diagnosis is hugely relevant.

What support/interventions has he had?

@FrenchandSaunders Really? My DS (16) has to be in by midnight at the weekend and earlier during the week. DD (19) was the same until she went to uni-even now, we ask her to be in around midnight if possible as we don’t want be woken up at 2am. Or text by midnight if she’s staying with a friend.

I'm reading all these replies with interest, thank you all for taking the time to reply and thanks for being helpful and not judgmental! MN makes me nervous sometimes I was dreading a 'why did you raise him to be so spoilt'. I have tried to talk to friends or school mums previously but I feel they either say something negative about my parenting or they start to think he is some sort of monster. I used to go to autism support groups but found we didn't fit as he was always more high functioning than other kids there and I found it hard to relate and felt like a bit of a fraud.