9 year old daughter hits, kicks, smacks, punches and scratches us. Don’t know what to do :(

[Bellesmummy12]

Hi I’m after some advice please (desperately so)..

My 9 year old daughter has always been a difficult child to parent. Everything has always been such a battle and for the past few years she has been physically violent towards me, her dad and grandparents. This is getting worse and dangerous. By physically violent I mean she kicks, punches, scratches, smacks and pulls hair. I very firmly tell her this is not okay and stop her hands but she will then keep trying or bang on the next door neighbours wall shouting help help my mums killing me (which obvs isn’t true). It’s if she is told no to something or if she can’t do something. She also hits herself in the head until she bruises. During her meltdowns which are occurring daily and lasting a good hour each time she screams, slam doors, swears, calls you every horrible name you can think of. Throws and breaks things. After all of this and she’s calmed down she wants a hug and she apologies. But no matter how much you try and explain her behaviour is wrong etc it’s always someone else’s fault never her own. Her consequences are removing privileges like screen time and me and her dad are always consistent but it doesn’t seem to work. She gets love and praise and hasn’t experienced any traumatic events.

We can’t go out much as a family anymore in public because of her meltdowns it’s too stressful. We haven’t had a holiday in over 3 years because when we did her melt downs are always worse. I’ve tried to get her in after school activities like swimming or gymnastics but every time we start a new club she runs out of the building.

Now my issue here is that school do not see these behaviours. She is not violent in any way there. Educationally she is on track. There were some issues where she was anxious about going to school in the past so they referred her to well-being support but she cried so she didn’t have to do it. She is also told off everyday for talking but school say this is normal.

I went to GP and school for help a few months ago who then referred to CAHM’s so CAMH’s sent the adhd and asd paperwork to school and the class teacher ticked not at all in every single box. I just know that camh’s are not going to pursue the referral now.

To add more context she also had some random seizures a few years ago over the space of several months ( her first occurred in school) and was diagnosed epileptic but she appears to have grown out of this now, she isn’t on any medication.

I’m so depressed about life right now. I’m desperate to get her help so if anybody has any advice I’d greatly appreciate it xxxx

Also I would have a look at any work by Naiomi fisher but specifically there is a new book called ‘when the naughty step doesn’t work’.

Thank you v much for all of your advice. I will write down the suggestions and work my way through. It is really helpful more than you could imagine. The funny thing is the single point of access team who triage the referrals work on the same office floor as me. Which is where this is another huge stress factor for me as I work in the borough we reside as a duty and assessment children’s social worker so I’ve tried to explain to her that if she is shouting things like my mum is killing me etc then this could impact on my job. I haven’t spoke to my manager about any of this yet but think I should as that will be a huge load off too.
A positive I can take from this though is that if I’ve been through this and working with services for my own child then hopefully my insight will benefit the families I work with who are experiencing similar

I've seen a trend in 'real mum life' tv shows.

I think the next taboo break will be along this line.
We're not bad parents or lazy parents or because of phones etc

These children are loved and supported but they don't fear their parents as similar generations did (which is a good thing) Therefore the rise in 'safe space violence'

Agree with lots of previous advice - also really look at eliminating artificial sweeteners, food dyes, flavourings etc. Incredibly difficult to do but the impact these things have on my ADHD daughter's behaviour is truly horrendous. She is like a completely different, often violent child with even small amounts.

Yes so much has changed now hasn’t it. Her dad for example never attended mainstream school. He was put in a boarding school for boys with challenging behaviour but I wonder if it had been today if he would have been understood better with more support and able to gain a better education

Aw OP, solidarity.

I've had those thoughts too as a teacher.

The experience has made me a better teacher for sure and I really feel I often get where parents of SEN students are coming from in a way that not all my colleagues do as they haven't lived it.

Make sure you plan ahead for secondary school. That's when it really can go horribly wrong. If you can get an EHCP and diagnosis it should hopefully smooth the way a little bit.

@Stretchedresources yes! We're just getting to the end of the first half term of year 7 here.

The effort it has taken to get that transition to go smoothly (ish)...

Second the suggestion of "The Explosive Child" book. It has been so helpful in understanding what's going on for my child and for structuring things to be able to avoid/reduce a lot of the meltdowns.

Lots of neurodivergent kids, especially girls, mask heavily in school and then meltdown at home. CAMHS or whoever is assessing your daughter will be aware of this.

Ultimately we paid for a private assessment as things were intensifying and if there was a diagnosis we wanted it in place prior to starting high school. If there was no diagnosis we wanted some time to explore what was going on and equally understand and support it prior to high school.

OP I would go straight to looking into low demand and suspecting PDA profile of autism due to the very high anxiety and fight or flight response that your DD seems to have.
Go to At Peace Parents on social media to find out more. Lots of free advice and content.

The signposting and clear boundaries structure advice that is often recommended for autistic children may be unsuitable or even counterproductive for a child with PDA because it can rely on authority and doesn’t help to calm their nervous system. That would need to be the priority in PDA as I understand it. You’ve had good advice about looking at OT and het physical needs.

The other thing is to keep a diary of how things are at home and then go back to her school and your GP and CAMHS and explain that she is not fine in school, because she is dysregulated at home. It sounds like she is masking all day in school and needs more support in school to manage it being there. Masking long term is not good for anyone's health and isn’t sustainable at home
or school.

@Limmi
You sound amazing. I wish we had been offered even half of what you would do.
My dd was attacking me several times a week, and I was repeatedly told it was my -lack of - parenting skills that was the problem. Honestly, the amount of professionals I saw that advised "a bedtime routine" or a "sticker chart" drove me mad.

Even when we did get through to a psychologist, dh took time off work to attend with me, and the dr wasn't there! Appointment had been cancelled and no one told us.
After the dx, we were just sent on our way with no follow up whatsoever. All my advice came from the internet.

OP - it will get better. Keep on going. Ignore the comments - they have no idea what it's like. Sometimes it really upset me to hear what people said, but you love your child and that's what counts.

We can look back now and laugh at some of the situations we found ourselves in.

thanks for taking the time to read and offer advice

great advice @bergamotorange

@Bellesmummy12 this has been such a challenge for you as a family and it sounds like you are doing amazingly, even though it doesn't feel like that.

Keep going, all the time, with the GP and yes, get the support of specific charities.

Take the pressure off with all outside activities for now and absolutely work on the calming at home. The behaviour is typical in some ways, so find strategies online and apply them, until you get some diagnosis and support.

And mostly, remember this isn't personal. Your DD has overwhelming reactions and sensitivity to deal with, and weird blind spots.

Hang on, keep going now you've started on the path of getting support, it will come. And find out how to explain to CAMHS the difference between school and home behaviour.

If you are happy to say which county/borough you are in, people may be able to advise local support (on the off-chance your borough is near Hertfordshire ADD-vance is excellent).

It does get easier (16 year old with PDA, ASD, ADHD).
I used to meet DD at the school gates with food and water - useless trying to do anything otherwise as she was hungry (didn't eat or drink much in school).
Meltdowns - view them as crisis situation - don't fix in the middle of them, just keep everyone safe. Afterwards your DD will need comfort and time to recover (physically and emotionally). You will learn to spot the triggers that lead to meltdowns, and try and reduce these where possible (meltdowns here now monthly not daily). Took me ages to not try and fix things mid meltdown, and to just be empathetic and focus on safety.
Previous low demand advice was spot on, and support during transitions also helps if PDA is a factor ... for example, transition from gaming to teeth brushing goes: sit next to gamer without speaking (important!), then ask them to tell you what they are doing, then you mention that teethbrushing will need to take place in 10 minutes, carry on talking about the game getting more involved, then 5 minute warning, then talk about the game and next plans as you start teeth brushing. It takes endless fucking patience which I do not have, but DH was amazing at it, and managed to get transitions from 30 minutes of stress to 5-10 minutes.
There will be cycles - in the school year, the day, the week (and then hormonal cycles too in the teen years, fun!) - learn these and be prepared.
Buy a laminator and organise the shit out of your lives. Visual aids for routines help. And (if you are like me) it makes you feel in control even when life is a shit show.

And take care of yourself and ignore all the people who prattle on about social media, wifi and crap parenting. Find your people, other parents in similar situations are essential.

Thanks I have wrote down the ideas and camhs are going to give me a call back they said. We are in greater Manchester Rochdale borough