Other parents don’t want DD around

[Alyssa80]

Hi,
DD will turn 9 in a month and has no friend.
Never had one for more than a couple of months. She spent her first 3/4 years in school sitting alone during reassess and never being invited to any birthday party.
She used to cry a lot about it. I tried my best to help her but to no avail.

We moved last year and I thought it was a perfect opportunity for a fresh start and it was for like a minute.
At first she was so happy with her new friends both in school and in the neighborhood. But after a while the kids that used to come home to see her stopped coming, one after the other. Then she started complaining again about all the kids shunning her out in school but the worst part was yet to come.

She got invited by a classmate to her first birthday party ever.
She went but stole one of her friend’s gift. The girl’s mother sent a us a group text asking if any kid had taken the toy by “inadvertance”. So I asked DD about it and she admitted stealing the toy. I was mortified. I took DD back to their home, had her apologize and did so myself.
I was petrified that this incident would go around and build a bad rep for all of us and I was right.

Yesterday, DD told me she has started asking her classmates about her own birthday party. One girl told her point blank that her father doesn’t like DD and won’t allow her to come to her birthday party because she’s a thief.
All the other kids she tried to invite told her no.
Shes feels miserable and I don’t know what to do.
Ive tried talking to her teachers (past and present) got her into piano, Choir, dansa classes so she could socialize more. I send her to snow class and even went to a child psychologist.

please help

Why does she struggle so much with social skills? Does she have SEN or is she ND? Do you know why she stole the gift, does she understand the link between that behaviour and people not wanting to spend time with her? Something is clearly going on for her. What did the psychologist say?

Well she doesn’t have friends due to not being a good friend herself. It’s important to teach children and remind them that no one is owed friends, you earn friends.

Have you had her assessed for SEN?

What did the psychologist say? Do you have friends?

What did the psychologist say? Was it just one meeting, can she go back for more regular sessions?

It's likely that there is an aspect of her behaviour that is causing problems.

When friends came round, did you see how they were together? Was there anything that was causing problems?

I'd be really shocked if the stealing was the only issue people have had with her behaviour.

What do her teachers say when you ask? How did she play with the other children before they stopped coming over?

It could be SEN or it could be very poor social skills. I had a terrible time making friends as a child, I don't have SEN I just naturally had poor social skills and little help to develop them at home.

Assuming no SEN, just sending her to groups might not be enough, you have to actually teach her social skills and all about being a friend. The book Growing Friendships is a good resource. Social Skills for Tweens is supposed to be good though I haven't read it.

Do you socialise much as a family, do you model friendships yourself?

I would probably suggest a school move as the current one sounds unsalvageable, with some meetings with the new school prior to the move, and some targeted work with your DD before she starts.

I feel so incredibly sad for your dd. It sounds awful but some people just have an energy which doesn't draw people to them, it's kind of a low energy/ apathy thing. Would you say your daughter knows how to be a friend? Does she ask other children questions? Does she speak passionately about her interests, but an appropriate amount?
Does she share things?
Is she manipulative?
I think we as parents can be blind to things, such as our own children being selfish or rude. If you can't see these traits then can you ask other parents why their children don't seem to want her as a friend? Even the shyest, most passive people in my son's class have lots of people at their birthday party's because children love party's so this seems unusual.
Could your dd be telling you they don't want to come to gain sympathy?
No judgement if she does! My dd does it all the time.
Or, the kids all could be mean and she could be targeted for a silly mistake she made once. But if this is not just in school but outside as well then I would suspect your daughter might need support in developing friendship skills.
My dd has ASD and I arranged play dates with other autistic children so she could be herself, could that help?

She sounds autistic? For everyone to not like her and her social skills to be so poor I would assume autism tbh.

Does she have any other issues/quirks?

Sorry OP to hear that. Aside from the stealing incident, do you know why she finds it hard to make friends? Is she reserved or shy? Do you see her with the other kids, what do you notice? Do you talk about it with her, from her perspective?

Wow, this is so sad. I would recommend seeking help from a paediatric occupational therapist. They can teach her, step by step, how to make friends. They can do things like do little cartoons in which she can choose her reaction to a situation and talk about how that might pan out. Then try a different reaction. It isn't a quick fix but it's very simple and structured and it works brilliantly.

I'd probably ask for a meeting at the school too to see if there is any support they can put in place.

Sounds like she needs emotional literacy support. Have you observed how she behaves on a play date?

For her to not have any friends when she started school, I would be wondering if her teachers gave you any feedback about her behaviour?

What was she like with the neighbourhood children? Did she say why she stole the present?

Reflecting on things my DC told me about other children around that age that didn't have friends at school, when they were a similar age:

They would constantly lie about things
They would lie to teachers to get other children in trouble
Issues with sharing, taking turns, playing a game and following the rules, accepting that sometimes others will 'win' in a game.
Hurting others
Doing something not socially acceptable- eg spitting or licking other children.
Sabotage others work or belongings
Stealing.

These are behaviours that were constant, not just a one-off here and there. It's incredibly sad, as its not always done maliciously and sometimes the more a child gets shunted, the more they do the behaviour that is causing the issue.

Not sure if the extra clubs are done at the school, but I would definitely look at activities outside the school.

I think you need to look deeper - some children prefer adult company and struggle with people their own age.
Some like to be in charge and are bossy.
Some don’t like losing games, or share nicely.

Another thought is she’s in the wrong school, sometimes children just don’t fit, same as adults don’t fit in their work roles.

Whats lacking in this school?

What’s she like at home? Does she have siblings?

All of this

Thank to all of you for your feedbacks.
I’ll try to answer some of your questions.

• I don’t know what SEN is but if by ND you mean neurodivergent, I think she might. When she was a toddler she showed some autistic traits and had speech, physical and occupational therapy from 1.5 to 3 yo but was never formally diagnosed
• The child therapist said we should have her tested for intellectual potential or something to that effect. That she’s advanced in her speech and reasoning etc but she’s not doing that great in school. Sometimes it’s like she has a bit of dyslexia or dyscalculia we had her tested for those and the speech therapist said she was OK but needed a bit of support. Now at almost 9 she still reverse letters and wright mirror numbers so I don’t know
• when she’s with other kid, she tends to be dominant and sometimes rude. I try to teach her to be more amenable and she is most of the time. maybe I’m so biased that I don’t see the gravity of her behavior but to me it’s not like she’s horrible. Just that she likes to be in charge. The other thing is she doesn’t have the same interest than most of the other kids. It’s almost like they don’t speak the same language
• I am an introvert. Her father’s an extrovert. I don’t know if she took after me or him. I usually don’t like company or mingling but her father is big on that and she is too. She craves company and making friends. Only she can’t keep them
• the stealing was the first and only time . I never thought she could ever do that. The minute she did, I told her about the consequences and now she understands that the current situation is her own doing. Still hurts tho

SEN = Special Educational Need

Yes, ND = Neurodiverse

I think this paragraph is key
when she’s with other kid, she tends to be dominant and sometimes rude. I try to teach her to be more amenable and she is most of the time. maybe I’m so biased that I don’t see the gravity of her behavior but to me it’s not like she’s horrible. Just that she likes to be in charge.

"Just that she likes to be in charge"
I mean, if I am spending time with a friend, I would expect us both to be on equal terms - taking turns to choose what to do, and 'getting on with it' for a while if my friend wants to do something I wouldn't have chosen, then I would expect her to join in happily another time doing something I enjoy but she might not have chosen. If someone wanted to dominate / be in charge / dictate to me what we did, I simply wouldn't choose to spend time with them either.

The other thing is she doesn’t have the same interest than most of the other kids. It’s almost like they don’t speak the same language

As above. If someone wanted to spend all their free time doing something I wasn't interested in - be that trainspotting or going to opera - I would choose to not spend time with them, and would choose to spend time with someone who enjoys doing things I like doing. As I think all of us would. As a parent, you crack on with taking your dc to something you aren't interested in, because that is good parenting, but I wouldn't spend time with any person I wasn't obliged to, in my free time, who never wanted to do the things I want to do.

I would make an appointment with the school (ask for an appointment with both the class teacher and the SENCo -Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator) and talk to them about your concerns. Ask them for their professional opinion. They might be able to do some work on social skills with her in school, and it might be the opening they have been waiting for, to talk about referrals for further assessment.

Honestly OP I can't see her recovering socially from stealing a gift from another child's birthday party.

That is going to follow her through school. If it was me I'd move schools again.

Regarding the dominant/rude personality and wanting to be in charge, you absolutely need to work on this with her. If this has happened all through her childhood and at 2 different schools, then it will continue to happen until she modifies her behaviour.

You say it's not like she's horrible, but that's a pretty low bar. She's not going to make and keep friends by being bossy or rude.

It does seem she struggles to understand how others may feel. Wanting ti be in charge may not look that bad but if it disrupts play and makes it nit fun other kids will withdraw such as “you stand there, now it’s your turn” etc could be quite draining for other kids.

Stealing a present from a birthday child seems odd, did she nit think a) it’s not hers b) the birthday child would be upset c) other people may find out? I mean if a 3 or 4 yr old ran off with a present I would find it funny but for a 9yr old it’s a bit extreme. Does she have poor impulse control generally?

Tbh I don’t think she empathises with children very easily, clearly she was welcomed initially so O don’t think it’s the other kids. You could try some books on friendships and ask her some questions about what she thinks about them or what she understands friendship to be. If it’s something like “my friends will do what I tell them to do” it’ll be easier to pinpoint where it’s going wrong.

The intellectual potential thing, the therapist thinks she may have a high IQ? tbh I’ve known a few kids with high IQ and some of them really struggle with connecting with children their own age. I think that would be worth exploring.

I’m sorry OP, it’s so tough when your kids are hurting,

she tends to be dominant and sometimes rude

I am guessing this is it. She wants to be in charge of play, and she wants to do what she enjoys, without regard for what the other child enjoys. This is particularly problematic when she is on a slightly different page from the other children, as they are less likely to enjoy the same things.

Everything you've said sounds classic autism op. I would push for a diagnosis as I suspect this will just get worse and secondary school will be a nightmare.

I agree she sounds like she has autism. She needs support and coping strategies to understand how to build positive relationships with her peers. This will also hopefully improve as she gets older, though it may be much older. I think she also does deserve another fresh start somewhere else, but when she's ready.

This with the stealing I can see the other parents point although it's very sad for your daughter. Hopefully she can get some help and have an easier time of it.

Maybe the stealing was so she could 'have' a bit of (birthday girls name) to take home because she's lonely?

But she needs to learn the etiquette of play and friendship.

Bit random I know but could you teach her how to play and share and stuff again? Not sure how.

I really feel for you I currently have books on children’s friendships my son is also waiting for autism assessment! I feel he doesn't seem to have friends but he’s happy it’s just me that’s sad about it.
How would people suggest that a parent can correct bossy/dominating and rude behaviour I’ve been trying for 3 years with 6 year old daughter (may also need referrals) she also doesn’t seem to do anything asked such as go and brush teeth or please pick up those toys when finished. Not sure how to correct it? Sorry for jumping in but it seems the answer is of benefit to op too!