New parents - how much sleep is "no sleep"

[Nikamon]

I've been hearing that new parents get no sleep and I kind of took it literally, so when my boy was born I was feeling quite lucky to be getting 5 hours of sleep per day. But after 3 months the little one sleeps less and recently I'm down to 2-3 hours per day. I'm having mental breakdowns on a regular basis (which I also heard was normal). On the other hand I'm reading posts from mothers complaining they don't get a solid chunk of sleep through the night, while for me it's about getting any sleep at all. I have such issue to figure out how much help I'm allowed to ask for. My goal was to be able to not sleep at all, but I just feel it's not possible. So what is meant when people say it's normal not to get sleep with a new baby?

Your gosl was to be able to not sleep at all? That's bonkers OP. Ask for as much help as you need.

2 to 3 hours a night is just not sustainable. Do you have a partner? Supportive family?

It's just something people say when they're getting less sleep than they used to/and or broken sleep.

My goal was to be able to not sleep at all

What does this mean? How was this your goal? No one can live on no sleep at all.

Do you have a husband?

It ranges.

No one can survive on no sleep.

No one feels good with too little sleep regularly.

You need help now. Do you sleep when the baby naps in the day?

And where is the father? You should both be dealing with this, so you both get some sleep.

Presumably the baby is sleeping more than 2-3 hours? So you sleep when baby sleeps.

What is going on exactly? You’d hope for a decent amount, just broken.

You can’t not sleep - a lack of sleep is incredibly physically and emotionally dangerous

what is your current sleep pattern

Woah op, that sounds awful. Definitely unsustainable. I aimed for 6 hours minimum, but accepting it would be broken. Sometimes I could get 8 in total but broken into 3 or 4 chunks. Still felt knackered on that!

do you have a partner? If so, you should try doing shifts. I used to go to bed around 8:30pm so I could be asleep by 9pm. DH would look after baby through the evening and give a bottle of expressed milk around 11pm. Then he would go to bed with baby after that (around 11:30pm). Baby wouldn’t wake for next feed until around 1am, so I’d have had 4 hours’ sleep by then. DH would hand over baby to me and then he’d sleep until 6:30am, so he’d get around 7 hours with one break. I’d go back to bed around 1:30am after first feed then get around 3 hours sleep until next feed around 4am. This one always took ages and included a nappy change so I likely wouldn’t get to sleep until 5am. Then I’d hopefully get another couple of hours until 7am.

on a bad night there might be an extra wake or the 1am feed might take an hour, in which case I’d go back to bed for baby’s first nap at around 8:30am and try to get another 45 mins or so then.

good luck OP, you really do need to be aiming for 6 hours absolute minimum.

DS1 woke every 45 minutes for about six months. There is a reason sleep deprivation is classed as torture. You can’t expect to carry on on no sleep. Can anyone help you? We should have begged for help. We only survived because there were two of us.

I was on 2-3 hours like you with my first and yes it took me to the edge of sanity. It was awful. It did fix itself between 6 and 11 months but looking back I feel we should have at least looked into sleep training for the good of all of us. My second slept wonderfully and I never got less than 5 hours, usually 6-8. Knowing the alternative I sure did feel lucky!

Nobody can not sleep at all you will end up losing your mind or in hospital ! Mine woke every 2 hours for a lot longer than I thought it would go on i was totally sleep deprived having emotional breakdowns just couldn't cope couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel . I switched her to no 2 teats early I think around 8 weeks and that made a huge difference she drank more so therefore slept more . I would try close my eyes when she would nap after a bottle during the day of course I couldnt always just nod off , it's so hard ! She's 17 weeks now and I get 4 hour stretches at night and she goes right back to sleep after a bottle at night so I promise it will get better . Do you have any help ? My DP used to take her in the evenings after work so I could go back to bed for a couple of hours otherwise I think I might of totally had a breakdown .

In the early months about 6-8 hours in a 24 hour cycle but broken up so maybe 2+2+3 with one of the two hour sleeps being broken at the 45 min mark.

It sounds like your baby is struggling to connect sleep cycles so waking up at the same time each time. It will take some time and patience but it can get better.
The key is to work out how you can help the baby settle without leaving them to cry or creating a new bad habit (say rocking endlessly). In the early days they will also feed near constantly.
By 6 months we got to the point where my kids would feed at 7, 10, 4ish and then between 10-4, I would often gently pat them to the point where a single pat would eventually get them back to sleep. That’s the goal though. Plenty of miracle workers who will claim to solve your problem in 3 days having a longer game plan that takes normal developmental cues into account is probably wiser.

Thanks.. yeah I figured out no sleep is not possible.. so yes I have a partner and we try to split it.. he works full time so I'm trying to make sure he gets at least 6 hours of sleep. But that leaves me with broken 4 hours, since our baby sleeps only 10-11 hours in 24 hours. So the baby falls asleep at 5am and wakes up at 8, then at 11.. during the day the naps are often 30 minutes. The pediatrician said it's normal and just the way the baby is. If I slept at all moments when I could sleep I would be doing better, but so often, despite the sleep deprivation, after I woke up at 8:30 I can't go back to sleep. Also in the evening I try to sleep from 8pm but I am only able to fall asleep around midnight - which is when my partner would also like to sleep.

We're both exhausted, I'm more, and that's why I'm asking, how much I'm allowed to ask from my partner. Especially that he works full time. I'm having mental breakdowns every day now, with hitting my head against the wall to feel a bit better. I'm eating a lot of sweets to cope emotionally and I feel so guilty. And I feel such a failure that I can't pull that weight.

So I understand I should aim for 6 hours for myself? What's a reasonable amount of sleep the father should sacrifice if he's working full time?

I'm terrified of taking advantage of him. Or to be too selfish. But I'm afraid I won't be able to care for the little one if this continues.

Today I heard from him "but why you didn't sleep, you had time for sleep", which led to a huge fight, as of course it's easy to interpret it negatively in my state.

This pattern of the baby started maybe 3 weeks ago, up to 3 months of age they would broken sleep between 1am and 8am and that was heaven comparing to now.. I tried to force wake him up in the mornings (that's one reason why I'm so sleep deprived now), cap day naps, go for walks outside around noon.. nothing works, one day he slept just 9 hours as the result and was very cranky.. so I stopped..

6-8 hours of broken sleep is what I was getting prior to pregnancy (I'm a very bad sleeper), I really don't get then why people say they get "no sleep".

@Nikamon

with hitting my head against the wall to feel a bit better

Is this a metaphor? Because if you're actually smacking your head on the wall you need to talk to your GP urgently. And yes, your partner should be helping you to get sleep. Both of you can get enough sleep. Someone goes to bed very early and gets some sleep, then switch. That way one of you at any given time is getting solid, undisturbed sleep and the other can sleep with baby and see to them when they need settling.

There are enough hours in the day for both people to get the sleep they need and share the load.

At 3 months I wouldn't wake the baby in the morning, cap day naps or anything like that. If you can, sleep when the baby sleeps night and day. Can you cosleep? Even just for day naps (still need to follow safe bed sharing guidelines) - look up the safe sleep seven.

Agree with pp that it sounds like you need medical help. Can you see your GP today?

Everyone's definition of no sleep is completely different I have found. It the same when they say 'my baby sleeps through the night' to some people that is 7pm to 7am to orders that is midnight to 5am.

No sleep to me is less than 2 hours as that is what I can not function on. I regularly coped on 4ish hours (broken sleep) with a nap some days at 3 months. Now at 2.5 years for my youngest I average 6ish hours a night (broken) as long as I go to bed around 8pm. We get up at 6am for school, nursery and work.

At 3 months just take what you can get. Sleep when they sleep. Don't wake them in the morning or cap naps. They are really too little for that. I got into a routine of going to bed from 7/8pm (baby naturally got into a pattern of bottle and sleep for a bit then) I'd get a couple of hours as DH would do the 11pm bottle before he went to bed. He was working full time while I was on mat leave so it was only fair I did all the night feeds. He would then take one night at the weekend.

My first was like this.

Well done for reaching out here, I did not and became very unwell.

Co sleep. Immediately. Make it safe and snuggle in.

Sleep evenings. As soon as DH home, until he goes to bed. It's not forever.

Aim for a co sleep or contact nap during day.

Don't worry about the other stuff that may need done. Priority is sleep.

If you are actually banging your head you need to see a GP asap.

Having a goal of no sleep is bonkers and shows that you need help urgently.

Baby must be over tired too, is there the budget for a sleep consultant? It's not as expensive as I imagined. A friend had great success and it was £80 .

Oh OP. You are totally right that this isn't sustainable. I have a 3yo and a 6mo so I know what it's like but you really can't carry on like this. If you are actually banging your head on the wall, please tell your GP or HV. They will have heard it before and will be able to give advice.

Two questions: are you breastfeeding and will baby sleep in the cot / basket?

If you are breastfeeding, I get its much harder. Your DP needs to be helping by doing the nappy changes / resettling so you can get straight back to sleep. That will maximise your sleeping time. If you can express, you could always leave a bottle on a weekend overnight so that you can get a stretch from say midnight to 5am and he can do the feed in the middle.

If you are bottle feeding, then on a Friday or Sat night when your DP isn't working the next day, he needs to take responsibility for doing all the overnights to allow you to catch up with sleep. It's amazing what one or two good nights sleep will do to you.

If you dont have family around to help, if funds allow, you could also consider booking a night nanny for a night to allow you both to catch up. But they are pricey. A sleep consultant might also be able to offer some tailored advice.

Once you are caught up, you can think more logically and practically. We did the shift system that other pps have mentioned. I never thought i could sleep in the early part of the evening but blackout curtains, eye mask, white noise etc and you will drift off.

Will baby sleep in a cot / basket? Mine would only be held which made things harder but even if you can't sleep, when they are napping, make sure you are lying down in bed. You might find you just drift off for a bit. Look up Lullaby Trust safe sleeping if they won't go into the cot.

I also wonder if baby is overtired? Mine was sleeping about 13hrs a day at 3mo i think. You don't say if you are getting out and about but I would have a few days at home, let baby sleep whenever they want, don't wake them at any time and see what their natural rhythm is. My 6mo has only just settled into a nap routine so don't feel pressure to get into a routine too early.

Once baby is 6months, you can look at gentle sleep training / routine etc.

Its really important to look after yourself so well done on starting a thread for help.

We did shifts before, then the baby was going to sleep at 1 am, but since he doesn't sleep at all at night, my sleep is totally out of line and I spend the time from 9pm till midnight crying or freaking out that I can't sleep. My partner feeds with bottle but since the litte one cries all the time, he tries to calm him down with expressed milk a lot, and as soon as the milk is over he has to wake me up. If I don't express milk in the morning there's not enough for the night and for feeding the little one so I can't sleep in. It's some nightmare. I'm going to GP today but I'm sure she'll either tell me that it's normal or that I should see a psychiatrist, who will give me antidepressants. Yes I am literally banging my head, that's the only thing that gives me relief currently.

This is so unnecessary. If the baby is awake from 9 until midnight go to bed and sleep. Leave baby with husband who can feed him formula.

Please do speak to your GP and health visitor. It seems like you need to talk all this thought with someone. One of them should refer you for some counselling, waiting times won't be as long since you've got a young baby.

If you really need to bang your head please put a pillow in the wall. Have you got some fidget toys you can use instead?

Ok so I just spoke to my GP. They told me to try yoga or meditation.

Did you say you were banging your head? Can you co tact your HV?

are you having problems sleeping yourself even when the baby is asleep? I had this... I would lay awake for hours when the baby was sleeping in a state of adrenalin fuelled misery and at times was getting less than two hours sleep in 24 hours. The baby waking didn't help, but the biggest issue was my ability to fall asleep/go back to sleep.

I had to break the cycle by getting sleeping pills, and asking my partner to step in for full overnight shifts so I could medicate myself to sleep for full nights every so often. I had to stop breastfeeding to take the pills, and actually I think that calmed my hormones down in the end and the insomnia passed. This wasn't until my baby was about 6 or 7 months that I could finally sleep like a normal person again. Your partner needs to understand how dangerous this is for you especially if you are in sole charge of baby during the day