Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Struggling to control my 3 year old

95 replies

Lockdownbaby2021 · 06/10/2024 23:20

Hello all.

So I’ve posted before but didn’t get many replies. Basically, the last 2-3 months my 3 year old has gradually become really difficult to handle.

even from being born he’s always been hard work, but felt like we turned a corner after his little brother was born this year. The first few months were amazing but gradually his behaviour has changed.

when he’s good, he’s great! So so caring, tells me he loves me, gives me random kisses, very smart and can have a great conversation. However I feel like he’s really regressed. Examples below.

  • Punching me (with fists) even on my head
  • throwing some big toys at me and his baby brother
  • pretending to spit at me.
  • pulling my hair out
  • kicking me
  • cslling me a dirty old boy (!?)
  • started wetting himself on purpose even though potty trained and now asking for nappies
  • Stealing his brothers dummies and having the biggest meltdown ever when I take them off him (again weaned off these no problem in April… 4 months after his brother was born so don’t know why it’s an issue all of a sudden)
  • developed a stutter
  • he’s not conversing as much.
  • the other day in Aldi he grabbed a toy a nd sat on the floor and started to open it and ran off when i tried to take it off him
  • he’s started just looking straight through us, there’s no getting through to him when he’s acting up
  • today he chucked a fruit shoot down my head in public I dragged him away (kicking and screaming) from a tractor ride which he’d been hogging for 30 minutes. I burst into tears.

I’ve tried all the gentle parenting techniques and even firm ones. I’ve read the ‘how to talk so little kids will listen’ there’s only so much I can remember from the book in the heat of the moment I can never remember what to say.

even when the baby is down for a nap, I really make the effort to play with him 1-1 and have us time. But he ruins it by just throwing his toys around, not listening, e.g we will be in the middle of a jigsaw and he will just break it all up and stomp on it.

he attends nursery 2x days a week and with his grandma 1x day a week. They have no issues with him and always praise him.
im really worried his little brother (who is just so calm, smiley, etc) is going o eventually pickup on his bad behaviour and also act like this 😭

unsure on the point in this post, guess I’m looking for other mums to say that 3 really is this hard!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 20:20

@RedRobyn2021 thank you, I think this was the kind of post I was looking for. Someone going through the same and having solidarity that it is a bloody hard age.

I have the hands are not for hitting book, it ended up getting thrown across the room 😳

OP posts:
redplantblueplant · 07/10/2024 20:21

I’m not anti gentle / respectful parenting but I am struck by the number of people in the Sarah OS group on FB who are punching bags for their kids tbh. I really don’t think it works or is effective.

RedRobyn2021 · 07/10/2024 20:22

@Yourethebeerthief

God I hate this judgemental comment

Occasionally losing it with your kids and raising your voice is not the end of the world

Talk about kicking a mother while she's down

Please go away

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Thesystemisbroken · 07/10/2024 20:24

Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 20:18

I meant as in, I don’t think there is a set right or wrong way to discipline every child (meaning what works for some won’t work for others)
I didn’t mean right or wrong way as in shouting at my boy personally.
I agree I need to find my own technique and stick to it, it’s just I’m struggling to find what that technique is.

I do feel strongly that for my boy that if I put him in a room on his own and shut the door and leave him this will affect him negatively long term as he is at the end of the day very clingy to me more than anyone else.

I feel like addressing the bad behaviour and removing myself from the situation and carrying on in another room as normal for a while might work, then discussing the bad behaviour (if it’s something serious like hitting or pulling my hair) later on when he’s calmed down.

The other day, I was in the car with him driving when I was just so drained from crying because of him, he was still screaming and crying and I just couldn’t respond or say anything as I didn’t physically know what to say. He ended up (while crying and screaming ) saying ‘mummy, please talk to me why aren’t you speaking’

I thought this thread might make me feel a little better but now I feel even more clueless and upset that I’m mentally affecting my child. 😭

Honestly you love your child and you're doing your best. You've shouted occasionally but you praise and love him and you likely show him all of the time. You are NOT mentally affecting him. You're just finding your way through like we all are. You've got a baby and a toddler and there's been a lot of change for everyone to get used to. Don't be so tough on yourself.

SunQueen24 · 07/10/2024 20:24

Honestly OP you sound like you’re doing a good job and you’re being too hard on yourself. I have one child who you just have allow to calm down, any action I take or anyway I interfere when he’s cross just prolongs the whole thing and fuels the fire. He just needs to work through it himself and we talk about it after once he’s calmed down. The other stops the instant he’s told to and gets upset about the conflict - he needs cuddles and will be able to chat about it straight away.

They’re all different and I think the best thing you can do as a parent is just keep calm yourself - that’s half the battle IMO.

bergamotorange · 07/10/2024 20:25

other day, I was in the car with him driving when I was just so drained from crying because of him, he was still screaming and crying and I just couldn’t respond or say anything as I didn’t physically know what to say. He ended up (while crying and screaming ) saying ‘mummy, please talk to me why aren’t you speaking’

Brew Would you say you're finding it hard to cope in general? Where's Dad in all this?

You shouldn't be crying this much. Yes they are enraging, annoying, frustrating but this amount of crying suggests you need more help.

Fear makes kids very angry. Is he perhaps afraid because things have changed and you're different?

Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 20:32

@bergamotorange yes I’d say I’m struggling the last couple of months because of the decline in his behaviour. I was actually in a really good place after having my second. Everything was going to well and I thought I was doing a pretty good job of raising two children. Then it was like a switch and he gradually got worse.

dad works full time and gets home as the boys are going to bed (hence why we read a book to our big boy together when he gets home) he’s got a Slipped disk the last month so cannot be of much help physically. The only day we have altogether is a Sunday as I also work full time.
however my partners reactions are huge to my boys hitting etc.(shouts quite loud) I’ve tried to tell him to tone it down and he always feels awful later on that day. But he’s just as clueless as me on what to do which is why I’m trying to find a technique for us both to us so it’s consistent.

OP posts:
HaveYouSeenRain · 07/10/2024 20:34

Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 13:38

Hi all.

so he does attend nursery and they don’t say anything negative or have any concerns.

I have tried discipline. The naughty step doesn’t work so I sit him on my lap on the step and hold his hands and say ‘ we do not hit in this house, we do kind hands’ and tell him the consequences of hitting and how it hurts but then continues to hit me. Sometimes on a bad day if I shout back (bad mum I know) later on I always say, ‘mummy’s sorry she raised her voice, I was just feeling really angry because you hit me.’ But again I may as well talk to a brick wall!

it’s only started the last couple of months.

i am thinking of taking him to the GP too.

so I try spend at least 30 mins 1-1 time through the day while baby sleeps, of course also taking him out somewhere too with the baby like soft play, park, walks etc
. then both me and his dad sit in bed on a night and read books with him together after we have put the baby to bed.

his diets not great but not too bad either. That’s another thing he’s started being so fussy with food. I’ve stopped buying ice lolly’s because he was starting to help himself to them from the freezer which would cause a meltdown if I took them off him so I stopped buying them and it’s worked.

a typical day would be

breakfast- cereal, (never sugared ones)
snack- brioche roll, innocent smoothie, orange, crisps, yogurt etc etc
lunch- pasta, flavoured rice, avocado / eggs on toast
tea- either our leftovers from tea the night before
pudding - biscuit, ice cream etc.

It’s just so strange how’s he just not conversing as well as he did before, he’s just like in his own world and just running around everywhere. He’s always been energetic but would always follow instructions.

Edited

I have a child that age and that’s a lot of sugar. Ditch the smoothie, brioche, crips, juice etc he can eat fruit for pudding.

HaveYouSeenRain · 07/10/2024 20:36

redplantblueplant · 07/10/2024 20:21

I’m not anti gentle / respectful parenting but I am struck by the number of people in the Sarah OS group on FB who are punching bags for their kids tbh. I really don’t think it works or is effective.

I have someone in my family who followed her religiously and her 7 year old is a brat with constant tantrums if he doesn’t get his way. Cue more gentle talking and explaining

Yourethebeerthief · 07/10/2024 20:38

RedRobyn2021 · 07/10/2024 20:22

@Yourethebeerthief

God I hate this judgemental comment

Occasionally losing it with your kids and raising your voice is not the end of the world

Talk about kicking a mother while she's down

Please go away

Go away yersel. As if you can tell me to leave the thread 🙄

I've offered the OP lots of helpful advice. I am not kicking her when she's down.

She still does need to stop shouting at her son.

HaveYouSeenRain · 07/10/2024 20:39

To add to the sugar comment, I can see a huge change in my toddler’s behaviour if he has too much sugar or a drink of juice. What you list as in an average day (biscuit/brioche/ice cream), I find a lot and I would replace some of that with fruit and not a smoothie. Sugar spikes are real.

Peclet · 07/10/2024 20:39

Typical day

breakfast- cereal, (never sugared ones)
snack- brioche roll, innocent smoothie, orange, crisps, yogurt etc etc
lunch- pasta, flavoured rice, avocado / eggs on toast
tea- either our leftovers from tea the night before
pudding - biscuit, ice cream etc.

breakfast- what about Greek yog and a banana? Toast and peanut butterfly, home made pancakes with fruit
snack- nuts, some fruit, some rice cakes with nut butter or cream cheese or smashed avo
lunch- sounds good
tea- Assuming all ok
pudding- yeah fine- but try to to give supermarket cakes too often as it’s UPF shite.

ditch the brioche, the innocent smoothie, processed cakes and snack bars.

user98786 · 07/10/2024 20:39

Forget gentle parenting!!

Do firm but fair instead.

It's ok for you to shout. You are the parent, he's the kid. You are the boss, not him.

InTheRainOnATrain · 07/10/2024 20:41

I know it’s seen as a bit old fashioned these days but I stand by time out/the naughty step, although I don’t like the word naughty so I like to say ‘time out on the thinking step’.

It’s simple, it removes them from the situation and stops the undesirable behaviour but it doesn’t reward it with attention. Both of mine totally got it from 2 and half. You set a 2 minute timer, they calm down and reset, you’re not yelling so you’re calm, then times up and you all forget about it. For moderate stuff they get a warning, something like hitting they’re instantly there. Most of the time the warning does the trick! If they get up you lead them back there over and over until he’s sat there for 2 minutes. You definitely wouldn’t do as you’ve been doing and put them on your lap because that’s essentially rewarding the poor behaviour with a cuddle and attention. Balance it with lots of attention for good behaviour and trying to have as much 1:1 time with him as poss.

Also, 3YO and a baby is a tough time. I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong trying a few different techniques to see what works best for him. Go easy on yourself!

user98786 · 07/10/2024 20:42

From what I've seen, the ones who fear their mums a little are the best behaved. Of course don't over do it, there's a sweet spot.

user98786 · 07/10/2024 20:43

But yes, 3 is hard! 4 is much easier!!

bergamotorange · 07/10/2024 20:45

Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 20:32

@bergamotorange yes I’d say I’m struggling the last couple of months because of the decline in his behaviour. I was actually in a really good place after having my second. Everything was going to well and I thought I was doing a pretty good job of raising two children. Then it was like a switch and he gradually got worse.

dad works full time and gets home as the boys are going to bed (hence why we read a book to our big boy together when he gets home) he’s got a Slipped disk the last month so cannot be of much help physically. The only day we have altogether is a Sunday as I also work full time.
however my partners reactions are huge to my boys hitting etc.(shouts quite loud) I’ve tried to tell him to tone it down and he always feels awful later on that day. But he’s just as clueless as me on what to do which is why I’m trying to find a technique for us both to us so it’s consistent.

Edited

It sounds like you need support.

Your partner's reactions sound like they're not helpful.

Would you consider parenting classes? Would your partner go? Do you have a children's centre anywhere in your area - they sometimes have parenting classes.

It's really hard at times. Try to pick a middle way parenting approach - not too strict and not too mild - and stick to it. Give it three full months and see where you are. Give you and your partner huge praise each day you stick to it. Try to keep the older one busy - send him to gather things, ask him to help you, make a big fuss of him, hide things for him to find, play silly games like throwing all the socks into the washing basket or building the tallest tower with bricks. Stand up with the baby so he can't hit them.

You need another Brew

HaveYouSeenRain · 07/10/2024 21:00

I am sorry you are going through this but I think you need professional support. I have an energetic 3 year old who sometimes tantrums or is mean to his sibling, but some of the behaviour described here is quite extreme (lot of hitting, attacking with fists.) And apparently they are happy at nursery so I do wonder if he is very jealous of the baby?

itsmabeline · 07/10/2024 21:37

The praise for being good and doing small things is great.

Now just stop rewarding bad behaviour with cuddles. There is nothing wrong with saying gentle hands if it works but it clearly doesn't. I have seen so many violent little kids who get away with hitting other children, taking things off them, pushing and their parents' full response to that is to say "gentle hands" and otherwise let them get away with it, which does not work. If it was my child they'd hit that would not be acceptable to me.

Anyway.

I'm not sure if going into another room and leaving them for two minutes would work either as two minutes is a very long time for a young child. Send them somewhere else but then they need a way to make up for what they did. Of course they need an explanation of what they did wrong, they're people not dogs. I think it's just as crazy to punish your child and it even tell them what they did wrong or give them any chance to make it better as it is to say gentle hands and let them get away with murder. They're little people, they need explanation and obvious, consistent consequences for poor behaviour. If one technique doesn't work you try another. And yes I'm afraid your technique is not working, it's too gentle, so they need something firmer.

He's not going to magically never be naughty or not be a three year old who tries to push your buttons, but he should become far better behaved over time.

itsmabeline · 07/10/2024 21:42

*not even.

I also think that yes they need to see that they still get attention even though there's a new baby, but at other times, not in the moment when they're acting up.

If you cry a lot in repsonse to your toddler's poor behaviour this is also modelling for them an inability to emotionally regulate, to be calm, to not take things personally and it is instead modelling anxiety.

You are obviously not crying on purpose and must be overwhelmed. When you feel this way try to take a breath and remember that your child is a three year old so is going to push buttons, it's not the end of the world and it's ok for him to scream and be upset. Practice ways to calm yourself and be ok with him creaming and shouting and crying so that it is less likely to also set you off. Try to get emotional support from your husband to help you be more calm and relaxed around your child. With a new baby your hormones are possibly what is causing this so getting extra help could really be useful.

Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 21:47

@itsmabeline the problem is I don’t know how to firmly discipline without doing a naughty step, or shouting or removing myself from the situation.. what other methods are there if gentle parenting is too soft and also doesn’t work,?

also I don’t cry all the time. I manage to keep my calm most of the time I front of him, even though inside I could scream, it was just yesterday I cried for the first time because I was so overwhelmed with him throwing his drink down me, hence why I posted this last night for help as I was desperate xx

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 07/10/2024 22:01

You will get conflicting answers because there are multiple schools of thought on what causes unwanted behaviour and therefore how to reduce it.

Three is bloody awful anyway whatever approach you go for. And all kids struggle when they have a new sibling. Flowers

The approach/school of thought in 123 Magic is behaviourism and Antecedant/Behaviour/Consequence. ie, the idea that your own behaviour as a parent is what influences your child's behaviour, and you can change their behaviour by making your requests clearer, improving your communication and providing immediate feedback about behaviour whether you like or dislike it.

I don't actually like 123 Magic, but it is evidence based, easy to follow and it does work for most children. If you like the sound of this, there is a bit more of a modern take on it on Coursera called The ABCs of Everyday Parenting, IMO it's much better - far more focused on the positive aspects and encouraging a replacement behaviour that you prefer, but this is basically the same theory just presented in a slightly different way. I find this is less heavy on the bits of 123 Magic that I dislike. (But also me disliking it is completely incidental, I'm no expert, just a mum who reads a lot.) It's a free course and most of it is 10 minute long videos so easy to follow even if you don't have a lot of time. It is also MUCH less focused on time out being something punitive away from you, and you can also use every technique except for time out, if you want to. So you could give it a go.

The other main approach/school of thought is that behaviour is communication, ie, when things are going well, generally children don't behave badly and are open to more collaborative or cooperative approaches or listening to explanations and reason, and will pick up on social norms and adult expectations fairly easily and go along with them. (Which is exactly why, 90% of the time, it doesn't matter if you do behaviourism "wrong"). When they are not doing this, it's a sign that something else is going on for them.

Unfortunately it then becomes really spread apart - this school of thought does not have a nice, neat answer like behaviourism tends to.

So you will get one person who says OK, when they are behaving badly it's because they are seeking connection from you. Spend more time with them and the behaviour will stop.

Or they are having "big feelings" and they do not yet know how to express them in a more appropriate way. Validate their feelings and they will gain words for it and the behaviour will stop.

Or they are stressed out by something e.g. a new sibling, a new school. Wait for this to pass, provide extra reassurance and the behaviour will stop.

Or it is a skill gap e.g. speech development, social skills. Give them more support in that area and they won't struggle so much and will catch up and the behaviour will stop.

Or it's sensory. They are overloaded and you need to reduce their sensory input and they will be less stressed out and the behaviour will stop.

(Add dozens more potential reasons.) The problem with all of this is that actually, it's quite likely that it is true that a child who has a lot of challenging behaviour is struggling with something. The notion that "behaviour is communication" is probably true. The problem is that it is usually very difficult to work out exactly what it is which is causing a child's behaviour, and plus it probably is not one neat perfect answer - it is most likely a combination of factors. Children do not come with handy interpretation manuals - which is exactly why behaviourism goes directly for the behaviour, and not the root cause. That makes it very measurable and very easy to apply because it is always the same, though it is also the major criticism of behaviourist approaches. Some behaviourists argue that it does not actually matter what the root cause is. Personally, I think this is short sighted. However, I can recognise that it is common for authors/experts/practitioners (and particularly, influencers) in the "behaviour is communication" sphere to laser focus on one particular underlying cause and insist that all "bad" behaviour is caused by this. In general, any stressor you work on with a child - any connection, any skill gaps, any emotion coaching - will have an overall stress reduction effect and it will likely help, but it is probably not the whole picture and you can focus overly on feelings OR connection OR reassurance or whatever it is but if it is actually that your child is struggling with sensory overload and confusion because they find other people extremely unpredictable, then this probably isn't going to be enough and you will run into problems. And then if you're very unlucky you'll run into a lot of guilt/shaming from people who are desperate to convince you that you're not connecting, reassuring or accepting enough.

Although in general I prefer the behaviour is communication approach and tend to think this is more complete and better - it is also slower, it is more complicated, it can have counter-productive results particularly short term or if you are over-interpreting messages from social media. I can see that it actually is useful to take at least some of the concepts from behaviourism and try them out. This will give you a clearer picture at least whether your child is responding to unclear messages, or whether they are actually struggling with things (because some children have so many things interacting that straight up behaviourism will escalate things rather than calm them.)

If you think that your child is struggling to gain skills that other children their age have, then you can speak to your health visitor or GP. Speech/communication is a common one that can need support at this age.

If you like the How To Talk tips but struggle to remember them in the moment, there is a useful app (it's the Mythic Owl one).

Yourethebeerthief · 07/10/2024 22:25

Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 21:47

@itsmabeline the problem is I don’t know how to firmly discipline without doing a naughty step, or shouting or removing myself from the situation.. what other methods are there if gentle parenting is too soft and also doesn’t work,?

also I don’t cry all the time. I manage to keep my calm most of the time I front of him, even though inside I could scream, it was just yesterday I cried for the first time because I was so overwhelmed with him throwing his drink down me, hence why I posted this last night for help as I was desperate xx

Edited

To me, firm discipline is about your attitude and your air of confidence. Your toddler needs to know you're unflappable and unbothered by such behaviours a) because they need you to be the calm in their storm, and b) because they need to know you're no pushover. If a child can get the better of their parents too often, their world is in chaos. The same way animals can sense when you're spooked or not in control.

It's hard to achieve when you're in the thick of it but the more you practise, the easier it gets. And your toddler will respond so it becomes a positive feedback loop. You'll then find when things are tricky you feel stronger and more confident to deal with them.

It's doomed to failure if you're being undermined, however. You say your husband shouts, and by the sounds of it it's more frequent and worse than when you do. There's no point in you working towards this if he's not on board. You both have to stop shouting and have a plan of how you're going to tackle behaviour together as a team.

TheDisillusionedAnarchist · 07/10/2024 23:06

Is he three and a half? In my experience it is just an awful age. Way out of bounds behaviour, emotional, dysregulated, oppositional.

I always thought children got better and better until I hit three and a half, it was a real downturn with both my kids. I questioned my parenting daily, wondered if they had special needs (they both do but I think it was aggravated by three and a half), questioned everything that was going on in our lives but it was just age.

They've had more difficult phases before and since but nothing quite like three and a half. At 5 and 7, its not a long distant memory and life is far far easier. It got better by four.

There's an article here about the 3 and a half behaviour breakdown. Its a known thing.
https://planningwithkids.com/2009/11/17/characteristics-of-three-and-a-half-year-old-behavior/

Characteristics of Three (and a half) Year Old Behavior - Planning With Kids

Characteristics of Three (and a half) Year Old Behavior - is your 3.5 challenging? Read on to find what is normal and tips on how to cope.

https://planningwithkids.com/2009/11/17/characteristics-of-three-and-a-half-year-old-behavior

Lockdownbaby2021 · 07/10/2024 23:26

@TheDisillusionedAnarchist yes he turned 3.5 two weeks ago. Xx

OP posts: