Update to 'I don't want my five year old'

[icann]

I thought I'd start a new thread because the other one had 800 plus responses and I think the limit is 1000

Anyway we started a private assessment with a strong suspicion of autism and possibly PDA. And maybe even ADHD. We've had the first assessment. We were going to be waiting too long on the NHS and our in laws helped us out with the costs. We've checked its a recognised society and it will be accepted by school.

We had a massive issue which is why it's taken too long for a reply. She broke her arm. She refused to go to school and we have been pretty much dragging her to school. I need the break..unfortunately she threw a cup at my 3 year old and she required stitches to her face.
I reacted way too slowly to stop it. I should have seen it. My 3 year old was bleeding a lot, apparently face injuries bleed like crazy. I had grab my 5 year.old and I am not ashamed to say I physically locked her in the living room so I could phone my husband to get home now. She trashed the entire living room. Her arm needed re casting as she broke it. My 3 year old needed stitches.

We've reached breaking point now and this second assessment can't come any quicker

I sleep while the kids are at nursery and school. It's difficult but it is what is.

School are giving us the massive run around. They openly admit she isn't coping with school but aren't willing to work with us. I cannot home school. It will completely be the end of anything I have left.

I'm not really sure what else I can do. Her eating is horrible. Everything is an absolutely massive battle and I'm so over it

Do not let them force her into homeschool.

look on the threads here for advice on how to force the school’s hand. Consider seeking a solicitor if they’re not meeting their obligations.

Sorry OP if I've misunderstood but your 5yo picked up your 3yo and threw her? That is some strength. I'm so sorry to read all this, it sounds horrendous.

Just wanted to say yes still reading and sorry things are so tough. The only words of wisdom I can really off is that we went through hell at certain points with dd1, I recognise the violence towards sibling and I have permanent scars myself but, a huge but it wasn't continuous, after a few months things would get better and stay at at least a manageable level for a good while, beginning of the school year was always the hardest and our issues changed over time. She is now living fully independently as an adult! Life wasn't a bed of roses but you can go from being a regular at a&e times where we are 20 years later.

Take care and keep hope

You may get more support via the SEN children's social care. A specialist sen social worker can assess needs, refer to specialist services and release funding dependent on needs. I've worked with families who have been allocated equipment, day and residential respite care. Your younger child's needs should be taken into account as well. You should be able to self-refer and ask school and nursery to refer as well. I'm actually quite surprised that this hasn't already been done as your younger child has sustained such injuries. You are clearly presenting as a family who is coping, I'm so sorry it isn't easier to get support.

I agree with you OP from what you've said there is absolutely no way I would home school either and you shouldn't feel ashamed about that.

What do you think is your long term plan? Have the specialists suggested any medication? I feel awful for saying this but if my child was hurting their sibling the way you have described I think I'd consider putting them in care

Yes she picked her up and threw her. I've made a massive issue of basically watching them both like a hawk..and I turned my back to start the bath for my youngest. From what I've gathered the 3 year old was in her space which she really doesn't like and I do try so hard to give her her boundaries but it's difficult. Anyway she picked her up and threw her. She's not a fat child but the 5 year old is solid and she's strong. So that was eventful.

School are really pushing us into withdrawing her but I don't want to. It's already been flagged that she's behind where she should be.

Christmas has been a nightmare. I've put up no decorations. My 5 year old says they make her angry. I try not to compare but my 3 year old is really excited for Christmas. And I don't want to ruin it. The grandparents have done the house out and said that the youngest can come whenever to look.

Unfortunately the grandparents agreed to take the 5 year out for a meal and some quality time and she had a meltdown. She broke her grandads glasses and threw herself onto the floor. They've said they don't feel able to manage her behaviour alone and she isn't able to go to their house alone. So this is a massive issue between the 2 girls. Because the grandparents are my 3 year olds safe place. And my 5 year old hates that the youngest has something she can't have. Sorry I'm rambling completely

The doctors have suggested starting her on risperidone. I'm not too sure how I feel.

If she’s that out of control, you should consider pharmaceutical options in addition to therapies. She cannot function like this.

So sorry you're going through this OP.

Oh, OP, it sounds really hard, and you sound exhausted.
If I were you, I'd give the meds a try. It might not be ideal but it doesn't have to be long term.
It sounds as if you are doing as much as you can, and you might not have the time or energy to do anything extra, but here are some suggestions in case you do:

1. Call the DLA helpline and ask for a form. That's all you have to do as a first step - takes a few minutes once you get through. Then they send the form with a deadline to return it, and it does take ages to fill it in, but you can ask for help (eg local citizens advice or other charity). When she eventually gets the DLA, they will backdate the claim to the date that you called. Once she has DLA, you and/or your DH could consider reducing your working hours as you could be eligible for Carer's Allowance and/or Universal Credit, which would include the disabled child element and the carer's element.
2. This might sound like a radical suggestion but have you and DH considered living separately with one child each for a while? You would swap around (maybe the child stays and the adult moves, to minimise disruption for your oldest) so each of you gets 1-2-1 time with each child and respite from the oldest. Obviously this is far from ideal and not a long-term solution as you presumably want to be together as a family, but in the short term it is worth considering to protect your youngest and reduce stress for you and DH.
3. Did social services do an Early Help Assessment? I know you said they were involved due to DC2's injuries :( If they haven't done an EHA, you can request one.
4. Has the school applied for an EHCP yet? They really should have. If they won't do it, you can apply yourself. See https://www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Hugs to you OP. I have a child who is similar - though not as extreme - and it's really hard. So I can imagine the stress you are under. It's frustrating when people say to take care of yourself when you have so little time for it, but I hope you can.

Do not withdraw her!! Once you are out it will make it harder to get back in. Are there and PRUs the school can make a referral to? I know places are like gold dust but if they are struggling with her behaviour then hopefully help you get a place even temporarily.

get on to facebook and see if you can find any groups relating to Sen in your local area/ local authority. This would be a great place to get advice from parents on who you can talk to. I’m sorry to say that SEN and most local authorities is an uphill fight but worth it if you can get someone to listed to you.

Oh op. This is so tough for you all. I feel this is when Social media and Mumsnet are an absolute godsend.

Oh op I am so sorry things aren’t any easier, I don’t have any advice but just sending love. x

She has seriously injured your younger child and it will only get worse as she gets bigger and older

Try the drugs.

I agree, don't withdraw her from school!

This is really extreme OP and I'd be seriously considering the medication. You might find she is a completely different child when she is on the medication and it allows her to learn and be successful at school. I've seen the dramatic effect medication can have on kids that are really, really struggling.

I think you also have to take it very seriously as a measure to keep your 3 year old safe from very severe harm.

Do it.
You've got to try everything OP.

As mentioned earlier, we’re going through similar and are right in the thick of it too. The one place I am able to get the tiniest glimmer of understanding from is the ‘At Peace Parenting’ instagram page. It may have been mentioned earlier- apologies if you know about it already and are just feeling overwhelmed. I just dip into it, and, even though I am utterly exhausted (and wish I could have a moment of NOT thinking about PDA), I find just the snippets of insight useful. There is a podcast too. Casey, the page owner, has been where you are with a young PDA child. Ultimately, PDA is a nervous system disability and at the moment, your DD is at burnout so is exploding frequently. If you can lower some (many!) expectations and demands, then her system can begin to regulate. Well, that’s Casey’s theory and we have had some progress using this approach. It goes against any other type of parenting I know but shifting my mindset, slowly, is helping.

Huge, huge hugs. You sound amazing. Find the tiniest bits of joy and comfort for yourself and use it to keep going.

Ok I'll speak to the gp and start her on the dose they recommend.
My expectations of her are zero, I don't ask or anything. But everything sets her off. Everything. She isn't eating. Again. My youngest is scared again. And I just feel like again I'm failing her

FWIW I think you need to keep her off sick from school while she recovers, but I can understand why you feel you just couldn't cope with her being at home all the time.

@icann you are not failing anyone. You are desperately getting help for your 5 year old, failing her would be ignoring it.

I know it's hard (I have a friend in a very similar position) but try and get some you time too.

Have they investigated ODD as a diagnosis? Sounds like it could be something to consider.

If the doctors are recommending meds. Then I would take it. It can't hurt and it might be the stop gap you need.

Sending love!!

I haven't read your other threads.. do you have anywhere you can off load, just for you, where no one is trying to fix you, suggest things to you, just allow you space to speak your feelings and listen to you? If you even need that - message me..

It's hard. Because I will do absolutely everything for her, for both of them. But I cannot take her out of school. It will destroy me

You’re not a bad mom for keeping her in school. Having more eyes on her is better at this juncture than keeping her at home.

@icann I am a SEND link governor for a primary school. If you want some help dealing with the school feel free to pm me and I will help as much as I can because it sounds like they are not putting the right measures in place