WWYD friends child hitting mine

[VerityFlowers]

Background info
A very good friend of mine has a 5 year old boy who is good friends with my 4 year old daughter. I help them out once a week by picking the boy up from school.

Incident 1
Last week there was an incident where my 4 year old was spinning around the room and she bashed into him by mistake. He reacted by punching her in the stomach. She was devastated and cried a lot as it really hurt. I told him "We don't punch in this house" and asked why he did it. He said she hurt him first and his dad had told him that if someone hits you, you hit them back. I explained that she did it by mistake so it's still not ok. (I actually don't agree with hitting someone back if they hit you first but it's not my place to say this to him as I'm not his parent). I let the mum know when she picked him up and no more was said.

Incident 2
A week later, I pick him up from school again and his teacher said he'd hit someone at lunchtime. I said I'd let the parents know.

When we got to mine after school, I reminded him that we use "gentle hands" in this house.

Mum comes over 2 hours later, I tell her about the school incident and she pulls him aside for a lengthy discussion.

Incident 3
20 minutes later, they're playing with some cars outside and he snatches one off her. She shouts at him quite loudly to give it back and he punches her again. Mum then makes him say sorry and takes him home.

Help!
I don't blame him - Maybe he's not enjoying his new class in school or he's struggling in some other way. It's not my place to interfere with that side of things and I'm sure my friend will work out why he's lashing out all of a sudden and will work with him to manage it.

The reason I'm posting is, it's my daughters party this weekend and we've hired a hall and bouncy castle. His mum and dad are working so I said I'd look after him and take him to the party. After the party, he's coming to ours for a sleepover. I am so worried he'll hit either my daughter or another child at the party. I'm looking for ideas to prevent it - especially as his parents won't actually be there!

Has anyone experienced a child lashing out physically before and if so, what would you do? Shall I follow him around for the whole time? Should I bring something else for him to hit if he gets angry? I can't really uninvite him. We agreed to me looking after him way before this behaviour started...

I'm gutted as I feel like instead of running around with my daughter enjoying, I'm going to be following her friend around making sure he's not hitting anyone :(

Thanks for any tips / advice. I'm curious to know everyone's opinions.

I did tell the mum that he hit her back because she 'hit' him first but maybe I need to bring that up again. The second time he hit her though definitely wasn't hitting back. He just did it to get the car.

Thank you loads for the advice. I'll pass that on about the cognitive development!!

Does anyone know a technique that might help him when he feels like he's going to punch? Something I can pass on to my friend? Like counting to 10, deep breaths....

Remind him before the party that he mustn't hit anyone and that it would spoil your DDs party if he does. Tell him to come to you if he's upset with anyone and you will sort it out for him. And keep a good eye out for trouble, if it starts to get boisterous calm it down.

Maybe the hitting back needs clarifying with this little boy.....
I'm going to throw a slight spanner in the works here to try and add another side to this debate. The caveat being that hitting isn't right and it does need managing but it can be hard. He also isn't hitting your daughter because she's female, he's just hitting out.
Boys and girls also mature at different rates.
From my observations boys are generally more physical than girls (who tend to be more verbal in attacks). Therefore the physical side needs channelling and then a conversation about it and making kinder choices.
I have both a boy and a girl (as do my 2 closest friends) so we have to work through the rougher/more physical behaviour of the boys. I don't have an answer, but as I have a child of each sex, I can't stop them being around each other.
We have to work out the trigger points and work with those - ie plenty of food, so not hangry, outside if they want to twirl around, time away from each other at play dates. Also found if my son has lashed out at school, it has been because he is trying to get away from another child to his own space. At home he has his own chill space that he can go to.
Your friend's son might be overwhelmed at school, which is why he lashed out.
It could also be a degree of frustration as they slowly mature but struggle with articulating the changes and challenges they face.
I'm glad you're not writing this little boy off, as he needs understanding and compassion, not thinking he will turn into a gf/wife beater in later life.

It's not your job to teach the boy to stop hitting.

If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:

• explain to his parents that you're still happy to have him, but you're concerned about the recent violent behaviour;
• ask if one of them would like to stay to supervise him at the party;
• if they can't / won't stay, explain that if he is violent at the party or sleepover he will have to go and sit quietly in a room by himself to wait for his parents to collect him and his parents will have to come and collect him. Ask his parents to explain this to the boy very clearly beforehand, so that he knows what to expect. Make sure you follow through.

Often it's about getting a child out of the situation and allowing them to calm quietly somewhere else.
Possibly a comforting item for them to have or a blanket. Then talking through (often easier said than done!)
Possibly recommend reading Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph.

Ah that’s awkward. The dads told him that as he’s (understandably) worried about his son having same experiences with bullying he has. Unfortunately, it’s backfired and now the boy is hitting because he thinks it’s acceptable.

I think they just need to helicopter parent for a bit and remove him from situations if he does hit, be really firm about it and let him know it’s not okay. The dad as well. Then hopefully he’ll stop and everything can carry on as before. It’s also teaching your daughter a good lesson that if someone’s behaviour is mean you don’t have to keep hanging out with them.

Thank you. It's tricky for the parents as they work a lot so he's in a lot of breakfast / after school clubs etc. He's an only child too so doesn't have that ongoing learning about sharing etc that you get with siblings! Mine is too but she see's her cousin a lot that she see's as a sibling.

Like hell would I let my daughter absorb the message that it is fine for a male to punch her as long as he says sorry or blames her for his actions. Him blaming her bumping into him for him punching her is unacceptable. “I hit you because you did X” is not something she should be hearing.

Unfortunately his father is not a lovely man because he has foolishly told his son to hit people. At 5, the boy did not hear or understand any conditions he gave. All he heard was “hit them back” and he perceives that as permission. As another person pointed out, because he feels like he has permission he is now hitting to get his own way as well.

The idiot father caused this mess because he was projecting his own past experiences onto his son and now he needs to fix it. It sounds like there was no need whatsoever to have a talk about bullies as his son is assertive enough and is actually the bully himself.

Edited to add: If you haven’t already, I would bring up what he said about what his dad told him to your friend. More than once I’ve experienced mums pulling their hair out trying to figure their children’s behaviour out only to discover that their husbands were responsible but hadn’t fessed up.

He’s only 5. He’s little and learning. The 5 year olds in my sons class are very physical and need lots of adult presence to keep the behaviour in check. I don’t think there’s a quick fix. Keep reminding about kind hands and try to avoid overwhelm.

I agree with others - your focus should be on protecting your DD, not parenting another child who hits her.

You've said the boy is spending a lot of time in breakfast clubs and after school care - and that's the source of the problem. He needs his parents present. And with respect - that's not you, even though you are friends.

I think it's unfortunate you've agreed to invite him to the party and for a sleepover. I think at minimum you need to cancel the sleepover and also have a plan for what to do if he lashes out during the party, ie he has to go home, his parents have to collect him. You need to make this clear to the parents before the party. Kids get all excited at parties and self control is challenged. You tell your DD that the sleepover is cancelled because the boy has now hit her twice and that's not on and as her mummy it's your job to look after her.

I would also drop the after school care as well.

If you are a good friend and feeling brave you could mention that the parents need to spend more time with their boy.

Just remember your first and only priority in this situation is your DD

My sense is that you are close to the parents and you seem to love this little boy. I do think you need to safeguard your dd but kids go through phases and he is obviously trying to communicate something. I would play it that if he hits again he immediately goes home and then you need to think about how to deal with it going forward. It is so difficult when it is a friends child.

Thank you for this great advice.
It is awkward but you're all right in saying that DD comes first.

I don't have much to add except I was in a similar situation with my very good friend's son. I also have a son but he was very gentle and much quieter than this whirlwind boy! I think they were about 3 or so (much older now).

I maintained the friendship but kept the children apart for a while (minimised contact where I could) and my friend's boy grew out of it and is a nice teenager now and they are back to being good friends.

This doesn't solve your immediate issues but gives you hope for the future.

I wouldn't have a child that intentionally hit my DC like that at their party or at a sleepover. Your DD needs to know from an early age that she does not need to Be Kind and accept violence or bullying from males - any males. She also needs to know that you will protect her and not invite someone who hits her to have more opportunities to hit her.

The invitations were offered and childcare arrangements agreed when violence wasn't part of the equation. Now it is, that changes things. I'd explain to the mum that you can no longer have him at the party or sleepover due to that, and that meet-ups will need one of his parents there (to discipline/supervise appropriately) and will need to be on neutral ground (not your DD's safe space) until the hitting is no longer an issue.

100% this.
Like fuck would I have this boy around my DD regardless of how sweet he was before or how much his parents work. Especially on her birthday.
What kind of example would this be setting to DD! DH would be in 100% agreement.
It would be a hard no, sorry, no play dates childcare etc while he's hurting our child.

Just to update, he came to the party but with another family member to watch him 1-1. So I played with my girl and she had a great party!

The sleepover was cancelled (for a different reason) not long after my post.

Has anyone asked this child why they've suddenly changed overnight?
My guess is he's being victimised by someone either at home or school. Especially as he's been told to hit back if he's hit.
Talk to him rather than chastise him!

Usually a learned behaviour i would be wondering what that poor child is witnessing at home behind clossed doors

Obviously your choice, but please don't leave him out! My son, was exactly like the little.boy in question. Nothing to do with us telling him to hit back, it's just how he handled certain situations. E.g people being to close, children screaming in his face. He has now been diagnosed with autism and has been given coping strategies for this. Maybe that's what's happening with this little boy? I know as a parent you can't bear seeing anyone hurt your little one, it's a shitty position to be in really for you and the other parent. You want to keep your child safe and she wants hers included and not left out.

Edited to say I wrote this before I saw your update that the sleepover had been cancelled and someone else supervised him at the party.

I think you just need to speak to your friend and lay your cards on the table. Be honest with her and explain your concerns. As his parents this is something they need to address (and perhaps they are, behind the scenes) especially if it’s going to cause issues for him and them, socially. There’s no point hiding your worries because it will affect the friendship.

Also, speak to your daughter and find out if she’s happy to go ahead with the sleepover. If not, that’s your opening - DD says she doesn’t want the sleepover as he keeps hurting her when they’re together.

I can’t stress enough that communication is key. She may be mortified and not know what to say or do so you opening it up may help both of you. It’s not a petty, insignificant issue. As you say, this is new behaviour so someone needs to get to the bottom of it. Children don’t just lash out for no reason. And that should be the main concern here - safe guarding of BOTH children.

Hold onto this. Hitting isn’t ok and it needs to be taken seriously but he’s five. He’s still learning. As a year 1 teacher, trust me, lots of 5 year olds hit.

I think some of the posters are way ott on this thread. I’m not minimising violence. But violence from a 5 yo IS different from violence from an adult. You’ve got to give his parents a chance to modify the behaviours. As long as I could see my friends taking it seriously, and having clear boundaries in place, and my own child was still ok to interact with him, I wouldn’t write this 5 yo and his entire family off just yet!

He has great parents who told him to punch back if someone hits him…
I have a similar age boy who will hit his older siblings but thankfully not his friends and work with similar aged children . Whilst I agree impulse control is still tricky at 4/5, actions absolutely should have consequences, so far it sounds like there have been no consequences and if it were my child doing the punching he wouldn’t be going to that party without me there to watch him.
The message your child is receiving is that it’s ok for someone to be physically hurting her (regardless of gender), you need to be her advocate and put her first regardless of the length of time you have been friends with the family.
It will only be a phase if his parents truly nip this in the bud and given his dad’s initial words of wisdom, it seems unlikely.

His mum told him that if he hits people, they won't want to play with him any more, he'll have no friends and he won't be invited to our house any more. It literally fell on deaf ears. After getting a huge telling off for the lunchtime incident, he literally hit dd again 20 minutes later

and yet he was invited to play with your DD, she is still expected to be his friend, and he was invited to your/her house for a sleepover no less

you may feel the 121 at party and sleepover cancelled but for other reasons ends the problem for now

unfortunately what he has learnt is:

hitting back is sanctioned by dad

any consequences mum said would happen didn’t

he’ll either be young enough to be confused about what is allowed

or old enough to realise he can hit when he likes

um, his “great parents” told him to hit someone back if they hit him. That’s not great parenting. They might not be scumbags, but it doesn’t mean they don’t have a part in his behaviour and are managing it well. Not saying whether you should it shouldn’t phase the friendship out btw, that’s not my place.
Things get very black and white on Mumsnet. And transitioning to toddlerhood to school age is tricky and children do not all develop at the same rate. I think some of the comments about violence against girls etc. are a bit OTT in this context. They’re very young children. I wouldn’t be putting a gender focus on it at this age. But I would be keeping my child safe and prioritising her happiness.
Just be honest with your friend: hey, look, I overcommitted with saying we could be responsible for your kid whilst hosting a party. I need to make sure things are running smoothly. And I won’t have the capacity to supervise him closely if there’s an upset and he hits out. Can you/a family member come with him? And can we postpone the sleepover for now, thanks.