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Using a car seat as a pram - supermarket trip?

36 replies

OJfordays · 23/09/2024 12:40

Baby is six days old - my understanding is they shouldn’t spend more than 30 mins in the car seat. But when we go shopping we see so many babies being pushed using the car seat as a pram. Is it okay or not?

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Peonies12 · 23/09/2024 12:42

If you have a lie flat car seat, they can stay longer. But honestly, if you have a partner, can't they just shop alone, or get a delivery?

OJfordays · 23/09/2024 13:02

They could shop alone but I am desperate for some fresh air! We’re not going for groceries but baby clothes - there are things we need that we didn’t realise we needed before he was born IYSWIM.

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OJfordays · 23/09/2024 13:03

It’s not a lie flat car seat. Nor are the ones we see other people using.

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Notdeckingthehalls · 23/09/2024 13:03

Don’t you have a bassinet to put them in on the pram?

Yogurtraisins · 23/09/2024 13:03

Can't you use the pram basinet or a sling?

IDontLoveTheWayYouLie · 23/09/2024 13:04

One pushes the trolly and then use the buggy too?

OJfordays · 23/09/2024 13:05

Notdeckingthehalls · 23/09/2024 13:03

Don’t you have a bassinet to put them in on the pram?

Yes - we do have a bassinet and this is what we will use. We just wondered why we see so many others using the car seat on the pram frame when our understanding is that they’re not safe to use for longer than 30 minutes.

Is it just for convenience sake or is the 30 min advice incorrect?

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Okdaisy · 23/09/2024 13:06

Once they're a bit older they're alright in the car seat for up to 2 hours, but at that age you should keep the time in their car seat to a minimum

stackhead · 23/09/2024 13:07

The rule is 30 minutes because of the babies position in the car seat it can restrict air flow as babies head can flop forwards a bit.

As with the vast majority of baby 'rules', it's ultimately down to the parents to consider the risks and make a call.

So for me it would depend on how big baby was (not just age, but physically how big), position in the car seat, whether i'd have eyes on them etc....

Have I gone shopping with baby in the car seat for longer than 30 minutes, yes I have. Would I leave baby in the car seat to nap without eyes on for longer than 30 minutes, no I wouldn't.

stackhead · 23/09/2024 13:09

Oh and the decision to take baby in the car seat rather than the bassinet was purely convenience/ease. I had a section, balls to manhandling more equipment than I needed to!

toastofthetown · 23/09/2024 13:10

The thirty minute rule is just for when they’re newborn. Not sure what the crossover age is, but they can spend up to two hours in the car seat as older babies. Some parents might not know the rule, some might decide that the convenience trumps the safety risk for them. The 30 minute advice is valid, but like most advice it’s very risk averse. Most babies will be fine over half an hour. Some won’t be, there’s no way to tell which babies won’t be and the results can be catastrophic. But as with everything, each parent will look at the advice and make their own decision for their family.

Ohthatsabitshit · 23/09/2024 13:11

Just carry the baby for a bit and then put it back in?

InTheRainOnATrain · 23/09/2024 13:12

I think the 30 minutes is only really when they’re tiny newborns isn’t it? Then it’s 2 hours which is enough time to get to and from then round the supermarket. I wasn’t personally that strict about it, I’d do a 45 minute drive without a stop for instance. But if I was going shopping I’d take them out of the seat then put them in the pram just because it seems comfier for them.

NewNameNoelle · 23/09/2024 13:13

It’s not a ‘rule’ it’s guidance. Not everyone knows about it, and some people make their own risk assessment.

You do what’s best for your baby and don’t worry about the others.

Cobblersorchard · 23/09/2024 13:14

There’s so many variables on baby size and car seat position etc. My DD was absolutely teeny and looked really uncomfortable in the car seat for the first 8 weeks. My friend had same car seat and her 10lb baby looked ready to go out playing football. He looked completely different in the same seat.

DD had to do longer than 30 mins because we live rurally and just a supermarket run or baby group meant 40 mins sometimes but we minimised it, and didn’t leave her sleeping in it.

You will see a lot of shitty parenting ignoring the guidance though @OJfordays in all aspects of baby care.

Follow the guidance as much as you can and do what you are comfortable with.

Completelyjo · 23/09/2024 13:14

It’s not 30 mins it’s more like 2 hours. Either way it’s a bit of common sense, as long as you aren’t having an infant in a carseat and curved bouncer all day long it’s fine to stick the carseat on the pram and move them from the car to the shop!

spikeandbuffy · 23/09/2024 13:16

Completelyjo · 23/09/2024 13:14

It’s not 30 mins it’s more like 2 hours. Either way it’s a bit of common sense, as long as you aren’t having an infant in a carseat and curved bouncer all day long it’s fine to stick the carseat on the pram and move them from the car to the shop!

It is 30 mins when they're younger - I think it's up to 6 weeks

GoneIsAnotherSummersDay · 23/09/2024 13:37

You will find that more parents ignore safety guidance than follow it when it comes to car seats. This is just the beginning.

In the lead up to this guidance being published, more babies had died from asphyxia (lack of oxygen) in car seats than had in collisions in the previous year.

I just don't think it's a chance worth taking, but you're correct that many parents do.

ferned · 23/09/2024 13:47

Very common for parents to ignore car sear safetly advice - things like the time spent in the seat and when to stop rear facing aren't monitored by law so parents go with the most convenient option. I've seen tiny babies pushed around in car seat buggies all day on long days out like theme parks. Just read the official advice and choose the safest option, don't worry too much about what other parents do with their babies. I always take the view that if it's not my child, it's not my problem!

Snowdrops17 · 23/09/2024 14:24

They should be laying flat when possible the 30 minute rule is due to the risk of asphyxiation unfolding not everyone educates themselves and leave babies in car seats for fact long even napping and left in car . I've always taken mine out of car seat and laying flat in pram , why take the risk for convenience

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 23/09/2024 14:47

Nobody is policing the 30 mins. Parents could be ignoring the guidance.

Nodlikeyouwerelistening · 23/09/2024 15:13

The guidance is 30 minutes at newborn and 2 hours older, this is mostly down to head control. It really is one of those things that is your parenting decision. The main risks to being in the car seats too long are overheating and positional asphyxiation. Firstly, a correctly fitted car seat shouldn’t give “head flop”, thereby reducing the risks somewhat, secondly you can reduce the risk of overheating by dressing baby appropriately for a car seat (fewer layers, never any bulky coats or hoodies, no hats etc.).

With a new, newborn I’d use a wrap or sling where possible but if baby is sparko when I arrive at the destination and I’m not going to be out for hours (getting a coffee and few bits from the supermarket) then I would and did just use the car seat. I also had to take one of mine on a long car journey at 2.5 weeks old where it wasn’t possible to stop every 30 mins and we ended out stuck in traffic for about an hour and a half. That’s just life.

You will find some people absolutely militant about these car seat timing guidelines, but I think most people accept they are guidelines and you just do your best and take as much or little risk as you are comfortable with.

BertieBotts · 26/09/2024 14:59

It's not unsafe in the sense that they will immediately have a reaction and be harmed by it. (I've actually read a lot of the research on this).

What the advice is about is an increased risk to young babies from spending longer time periods in car seats. Ideally, very young babies ought to be laid flat as much as possible. The risk with an inclined position such as a car seat (but also things like bouncers, rockers, swings, and pushchairs in semi-reclined position) is that they can end up in a position where their airway is compressed due to poor neck control at this age. If you bend your head down, so your own chin touches your chest, you can feel how difficult it is to breathe like this. The problem for newborns in particular, is that they can't hold their own head up to alleviate this, particularly against the slope of the seat. And while they might be able to manage a reduced level of oxygen for a short amount of time, the longer they are left like that the less oxygen they are taking in, so in rare cases, it can cause seizures or even asphyxiation (suffocation).

Really the riskier duration is 1hr+, especially if your car seat is modern (car seat inserts have greatly improved since a lot of these research observations were made) and properly adjusted, and your baby is full term and a typical weight with no breathing problems. But even this is a small increase of a small risk to begin with. Certainly when my 16yo was born, everyone was using swings and rockers and bouncers for tiny babies and nobody ever told us not to. You could even get a hammock bed for them to sleep in which would cause all kinds of worry today! I am sure I don't remember car seat time limits being suggested either, although there was a lot of criticism of people using car seats on pushchairs and suggestion that it would curve the baby's spine due to the lack of proper support, and I remember being warned never to put the car seat on a high up surface in case the baby managed to rock themselves off the edge of the table (which has also been a cause of accidental death to babies in car seats).

The 30 min advice seems to come from a small pilot study done in 2014 and it is strange how the UK has really latched onto this, because IMO there were a lot of problems with the study design and none of the findings have been replicated since. However I am curious about @GoneIsAnotherSummersDay 's comment - it makes sense, because babies in rear facing car seats hardly ever die in car crashes, but I hadn't come across this statistic before and I'm curious if you have more info. I would imagine that it can't be that many, because the figures from the US over various multiple-year spans are in single figures per year, and they drive much more and have much higher population than the UK.

In any case, for babies over 4 weeks old, the recommended guideline is 2 hours. Under 4 weeks, you just want to minimise use of the car seat where possible, or keep a guideline of 30-60 minutes in mind. If you choose to use the car seat on the pram or go for a long drive, it is enough to remove them from the seat, give them a cuddle (maybe a feed) and let them stretch and then put them back in the seat if you need to continue your journey.

And these are just guidelines too. You can make your own judgement on whether or not something is safe. IMO the way that people interpret guidelines today on the internet is extreme and not the intent of the advice. It is anxiety fodder, when in reality you really don't need to do everything 100% right all the time. Your baby will probably be fine even if you did everything wrong! After all, the majority of babies were fine even before this advice. While it's useful to bear it in mind and be aware that a particular risk exists, and the ways to reduce the risk, I don't think it is healthy to be worrying constantly about tiny risks which likely will not happen.

GoneIsAnotherSummersDay · 26/09/2024 15:14

@BertieBotts I think the messaging from the study I referred to was commenting on how far we have come in terms of car seat safety in collisions as yes, the current rear-facing car seats are so safe that the baby is likely the safest person in any car in the event of an accident. The particular stat quoted was that in the year covered by the research there had been 0 fatalities in car seats as a result of RTC but 21 fatalities due to asphyxia. The stat stuck with me. I'm dashing off for the school run now but I'll try to find and link the study later.

I do think the baby's position in the car seat is also affected by the slope of the car's seats in the particular model of car as well. I know my DD suffered from head flop quite badly in our car in her RF seat.

BertieBotts · 26/09/2024 17:43

Thanks for that Smile no rush on any stats/links.

I agree with you about the slope in cars - this is a problem particularly with isofix seats. There are some bases which try to address it but generally you don't know you have the problem until after you buy the seat and start using it which is usually too late to change it.

I think we are still fairly early on in understanding this issue. I was looking for something on old BBC articles a while back and found a report about a baby who had a near-asphyxiation experience in a car seat in a car where they had been left on their own at some point in the late 90s. The article was written as though the cause of the incident was unknown.

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