Teacher has a "bad list"

[Chloephilips]

Before bed my DD who is 5 has said that the teacher has a bad list in the classroom and writes children's names on it. Concerning enough but then I asked what the children did to be put on the bad list and she said they were too slow finishing their work, they are in year 1. Think its really worrying and dont know if I should say something to the teacher as my DD is now worried she'll be put on it if she can't do her work quick enough

That sounds horrific. Even if a child is quite naughty, putting them on the cloud is labelling them as such and attaching a negative identity to them. Not to mention absolutely humiliating.

I'd pull my child right out of school if I found out they did something like that 😔

Has your DC perhaps got the wrong end of the stick?

as a substitute teacher, I might warn some kids if they are continuously ignoring instructions / chatting etc that if they continue to choose that instead of the work, they will have to stay in at break to finish their work. After a few warnings I might say 'I'm going to note your name here and I hope you can show me you're making a strong choice and then I'll rub it off'. This is to encourage chatty kids / kids who play up for substitutes to chat less and get on with work!

it's absolutely not a 'chart' but more of a warning to get a wriggle on, and I'll never do it until a few warnings have been ignored. And I'll rub them off pretty fast.

the neurodiverse kids / ones who need extra support are usually fairly obvious and the list won't ever shame anyone.

OP, your daughter may have got the wrong end of the stick so I think your plan to approach the teacher neutrally, with an open question, is a good one. I suspect “being put on the bad list for not finishing your work” means being put on blue / the cloud / whatever if you’ve been messing around, talking etc. and not concentrating on work. I would very much hope it’s not used for children who are slow doing their work because they struggle academically.

More broadly, how on earth are teachers supposed to manage a class of 30 if there are no sanctions for poor behaviour? The behaviour system should be subject to reasonable adjustments for those with disabilities / SEN, but teachers need to get behaviour under control before the child is big and strong enough to cause serious damage to their classmates / the staff / the classroom. No wonder teachers are leaving in their droves if every time little Jonny is put on red for throwing a chair or hitting someone his parent is complaining because his “unmet needs” haven’t been recognised. (I am not a teacher or former teacher btw!)

A question to those who are saying that sunshine/clouds or smiley/sad faces are "horrific," may I (genuinely) ask what suggestions you have instead to keep children on track in class?
(Disclaimer: I don't, haven't or ever would use this tactic myself but I'm curious)

I quite like 1 2 3 magic. It’s a verbal acknowledgement to the child with clear consequences if they get to 3 rather than a visual “shaming” on a board for all to see. child doesn’t have get back up the board to succeed just getting prompts to get back on track.

in my experience of observing the “clouds” teachers are busy and often forget to move children back into a more positive space on the cloud and their name is stuck in the negative space for all to see for most of the lesson.

Were they not able to link it with their behaviour?

Dts primary had a card system, red, yellow, green. The system was they would get a warning, then card turned to yellow, then red. All reset the next day to green. If you hit more than a certain amount of reds you missed 'golden time' at the end of term. No one ever missed golden time.

@boulevardofbrokendreamss My school had that system once. It was an absolute pain in the arse to administer. You also had to give 3 verbal warnings before you could actually give any sort of sanction.
Thankfully, we dropped it about 15 years ago.

I'm not a teacher, but if there's going to be a system where they get X number of warnings and then face a consequence (reasonable, surely), then there needs to be a way of recording those warnings otherwise the teacher has to remember and there will be disputes. But teacher, I was only on two warnings! I shouldn't lose my golden time!

Something like moving clouds or a traffic light system is easiest on everyone, surely.

I totally agree with this.

@BeMintBee

I quite like 1 2 3 magic. It’s a verbal acknowledgement to the child with clear consequences if they get to 3 rather than a visual “shaming” on a board for all to see. child doesn’t have get back up the board to succeed just getting prompts to get back on track.

You are missing the most important information in this answer.

"What are the clear consequences?"

How do you know the names on the board isn't after warnings?

Yep - I've literally just talked to the SENDCO at my DSs new school about how he's got to Year 10 and his ADHD, dyspraxia and dyslexia have never been diagnosed or even recognised apart from by me (who was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 49 by the NHS) My elder DS has just left school and I know damn well he's as neurodiverse as I am and yet apparently there was no evidence of it. Both of them know how to behave however.

I have spent 15 years full time in a class of 30 kids (Secondary) although admittedly I left years some years ago now, and I would have no qualms about using names on a board or whatever to put a warning shot across their bows if misbehaving. A lot of state school classrooms resemble a zoo and this is because the minute kids are challenged about their behaviour everybody at home is horrified and parents arrive at your door shouting in your face about how you shouldn't be allowed to teach 🙄.

No, Aleisha-Mae-Jade, and you shouldn't be allowed to parent but here we are, the decent kids just end up having their education disrupted on a daily basis and nobody is shouting about that.

Sorry the quote about additional needs being pick up by secondary school age was attached to that but I've lost it!

Didn’t miss it at all. The consequences will vary depending on each school behaviour policy. Research it if you want to 🤷‍♀️ I’m just talking about alternatives to names on a board. The consequences that follow getting to 3 or getting onto the black cloud could be exactly the same I’m simply saying I don’t like the visual board method of letting a child know they aren’t doing well.

I do classroom observations all the time so I have a fairly good idea of how it is often used so just commenting based on my experience I don’t really care if you agree with me or not.

Presumably their behaviour was not atrocious at school.

I already gave a suggestion... do away with the clouds and have a positive behaviour board. Point out the good things children have done in the class, that is more likely to motivate them to see their name on that board. There's no need for the cloud at all. The other alternative is to give them responsibilities in the classroom. One of the things I do with young people who have challenging behaviour is ask them to help another or help set up for an activity and then acknowledge the work they put in to that. Its setting them up for opportunities to be praised so you can reaffirm positive behaviour. At the end of the day I see no reason why a 123 warning should be so difficult to administer. Ultimately consequences need to be in line with the action, so if you're on 2 but then someone throws a chair they can't safety be in the room so the consequence is immediate. I do a contract of expectations with students and of myself and any other staff likely to be in the room and everyone signs it and it goes up on the wall for everyone to see. They set the rules and expectations and most of it is about breaking down what does respect look like and what do you want your time in class to feel like, how do you directly contribute to that, how can you hold each other to account. That works really well in my experience especially with big groups.

@caringcarer I can agree many of the young people I've worked with have been diagnosed later in life as well, some with very difficult behaviour in school. Certain life circumstances can make it very difficult for even outwardly volatile pupils to receive a proper diagnosis. Plus trauma isn't really recognised in this way. There doesn't need to always be a diagnosis for a pupil to be having a really hard run of things and for behaviour to decline.

@TheSnootiestFox could you explain to me what a decent kid is please?

This attitude is a huge part of the problem.

The ones that know right from wrong. What attitude are you alluding to?

I would hazard a guess that it’s increasing use of methods like these coupled with a lack of support that has led to these problems escalating.

Children do well if they can (quote from Ross Greene). If they’re consistently shamed for being on the “bad side” (and they’re not stupid, everyone knows that being on the red light, or the stormy cloud, or whatever new bullshit fun way is found to highlight which children are consistently struggling) what are they going to learn from this? Certainly nothing positive.

Look at the children in reception or year 7, the ones on the sad side of these methods are the same children on the same side in their leaving year. It does nothing. It might make a frustrated teacher feel better but it does duck all for vulnerable children. Beggars belief that child experts are scratching their heads and wondering why behaviour is going downhill.

Oh this is just the worst, laziest sort of teaching. Kids' names under grey clouds nonsense. Hate it and would never have done it when I was a teacher. Complain to the teacher, then if fruitless the Head, then governors etc. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's OK.

I think that lack of parenting probably has far more to do with poor behaviour levels than school behaviour systems.

@BigJean absolutely. It's a shame some teachers and headteachers are so clueless.

Children are learning right from wrong. And sometimes they just have bad days and sometimes they just have more going on than they can handle. Right into teenage years until brain development is complete which happens as a young adult. None of that means they aren't decent kids because they're acting out. The attitude of not being able to distinguish the child from the behaviour is the problem. All children are decent, some need more help than others to behave in ways that are safe and appropriate.

In the past few months there have been many posts from teachers about behaviour, and commenting on the rise in SN children in classes - a few stating that there were as many as 1/3 children with SN in her secondary class.

Schools are currently failing everyone involved: children, teachers and parents. Humans do as well as they can with the resources/circumstances they have.

It’s so lazy to blame parents all the time.
I struggled with my son because he was unsupported in school, he was badly behaved in school because he was constantly in meltdown and punished rather than helped, meanwhile I was labelled a bad parent because of this - can you see where I’m going? Do you think these accusations helped anyone?

For whatever reason rates of special needs are fast increasing. Schools still using shaming methods to try to encourage better behaviour from these children didn’t work 20 years ago (when my oldest was at school) and, surprise suprise, don’t work now. These children need better support rather than the cuts to funding and the poor level of support available in most schools nowadays. It’s a perfect storm that’s bound to explode in our faces some time if schools don’t improve the way children are being treated.

Special needs kids are the canaries in the mines.