Teacher has a "bad list"

[Chloephilips]

Before bed my DD who is 5 has said that the teacher has a bad list in the classroom and writes children's names on it. Concerning enough but then I asked what the children did to be put on the bad list and she said they were too slow finishing their work, they are in year 1. Think its really worrying and dont know if I should say something to the teacher as my DD is now worried she'll be put on it if she can't do her work quick enough

It's not for poor performance only bad behaviour which disrupts other DC and prevents them from learning.

Oh my goodness this sounds awful. I would definitely gently check with the teacher - it is possible your child misunderstood but there are some terrible educational practices out there so maybe not. I would check in with other parents (strength in numbers!) and see if you can push back. I’d also spend lots of time ensuring she knows you value her work ethic rather than the outcome. I’m really sorry - what a way to put kids off school!

I fully appreciate needing to ensure a good learning environment, it’s absolutely necessary to have this in place, but the problem is the name and shame tactic doesn’t work effectively if just ignoring the underlying issue. If little boy X has neurodevelopmental concerns, let’s get him tested and appropriate strategies like OT support put in place, rather than constantly telling him that’s he’s bad. All that does is a) lead him to believe he is bad and might as well behave as such and b) eventually realises all points/stars/whatever aren’t in reach so might as well stop trying. But I can recognise that teachers are underpaid, under resourced and often assessments have huge waitlists so it’s a catch 22. Still unfair for the child who needs support/and the bright child trying to learn without interruption.

Where has this idea of bad behaviour come from? In mental health, learning disabilities services, prisons even we have moved from bad behaviour to understanding it is unmet need. We have a duty of care to change the way we provide services so we better meet children's needs as well as encouraging personal responsibility. How come trauma informed teaching is decades behind? Lack of investment? Lack of knowledge of alternative theoretical understandings of behaviour at the top? How have other sectors moved on this over the last 20 years but the education system can only reflect enough to use rain clouds?

I can easily believe it. Cloud systems are also a nightmare for children who prefer cloudy and rainy days, and rainbows. My dc had sensory issues and hated direct sunlight! Was quite happy with clouds. One of them would also quite happily subvert behaviour regimes to get desired goals - being ignored in class and not getting a reward? Misbehave so you get the teacher's attention and then earn a sticker for then being good again. More rewarding than sitting under the radar not being noticed.

My daughter's classes have had very complex systems - this year there's keys, coins, proud clouds, warnings, golden time, loss of golden time. I'm sure I've missed some.

Just politely ask the teacher to explain what she does so you know what your DD is talking about and don't steer her wrong. And then take it from there once you've pondered the answer.

Jesus wept. Amazing how everyone on here knows better than the qualified teacher yet strangely schools have a recruitment crisis ...

The school is probably run by an academy these days, will have a clear behaviour policy decided by the trust and woe betide the teacher if they are seen not to consistently apply it...

Your daughters interpretation and description of this and what actually happened are not going to be the same thing OP

Really, some of you have NO IDEA of the behaviour issues schools are grappling with these days.
Just how do you suggest teachers are to maintain good order if they're not even allowed to point out a child's poor behaviour or attitude in case they become distressed? You may think your child only needs telling once but, trust me, there are many, many children in your child's class who flatly ignore all reminders about good behaviour. Some are, quite literally, running riot.
And everyone's learning suffers.

Oh, and I can guarantee that no child who is trying hard to answer the given task, albeit slowly, will end up on the "bad list" - if such a thing even exists. That is likely their interpretation of a sad face on the board.

@SilkFloss you've actually hit the nail on the head right there... the fact a child could easily interpret this as a "bad" list is exactly the problem. The message that this sends out to children who misinterpret what the intention of the board is, is problematic. And its really not a massive jump for children to make since they do tend to think more simply about things than adults do. Pointing out challenging behaviour is one thing, but marking it up on a board is to me an unnecessary level of highlighting it. It's also not really productive in that it doesn't help the teacher or anyone else in the room understand why the behaviour is happening in the first place. Which means they can't address it. Which means it will possibly continue.

An easy alternative is highlighting good behaviour without focusing on the negative behaviour at all... it tends to be more motivating as children want the "reward" of the acknowledgement without the risk of children feeling embarrassed or anxious about getting it wrong.

I've taught gang-involved young men, in youth offending sites, and alternative schools. Am I allowed an opinion on shaming 5 year old children?

The fact is that at 5, it's either poor parenting, trauma or SEN if they are misbehaving to that level. None of which are treated with shame.

By the time a DC is in secondary school any SN's should have been picked up. Writing a DC name on the board if for example they throw a ruler at another DC and laugh if it hits them is hardly going to traumatise them. Teachers have to follow the school rules on behaviour management. In schools where I worked if a DC had their name on the board 3 times in one lesson there would be a further consequence. Names went on the board for behaviour that interfered with other DC's learning or any behaviour which put other DC at risk of harm. Personally I would have preferred to take a tougher line and punish anyone throwing a ruler or taking their mobile out during a lesson without permission with a lunch time detention which I'd have happily supervised. However most schools give DC 3 chances before a detention. That is why behaviour is often poor. In the one school I worked where DC only got one chance and any further misdemeanor was punished by detention there was much better behaviour in general in classrooms.

By the time a DC is in secondary school any SN's should have been picked up.

Someone at my work just got diagnosed in her 20s.

I don't know why anyone thinks this is ok. If you went to work and underperforming people or people who made a mistake or who talked a bit too much, were put on a board for everyone to see everyday, you would probably leave. It's demoralising and humiliating for the people on the board and creates a not very positive atmosphere for everyone else.

None of the bullies will get their name on the bad list, but if one of the bullying victims forgets their reading book their name will be up there

I presume anyone defending this policy would be happy for a similar board to be put up at their workplace with the names of them and their colleagues on it to encourage better performance and punish mistakes? If not, then how is it acceptable to do it for five year old children?

I would argue that if qualified teachers are applying these practices, they have been poorly trained themselves or they are working for trusts with poorly trained leadership. As PP have mentioned all other sectors have moved away from this outdated method of behaviour management.

This was very common in my children’s early years classrooms about 12ish years ago. Traffic lights or being ‘on the bus’ or ‘off the bus’.

I don’t think it necessarily helped, though one teacher for 20-25 excitable kids you need to have some behaviour strategies in place I suppose.

There was a reception teacher at my children’s school who used to tear up the work in front of the child if she deemed it ‘not good enough’. Outrageous! Except - every year the school would receive requests from parents of preschoolers requesting that their child be placed in her class (there were 6-7 reception classes). So out of 20 kids about 17 would be younger siblings of existing students at the school and the parents would be delighted that they had the inside knowledge to demand ‘the best’ teacher who would push their kids ahead of everyone else. So she carried on with her methods and why wouldn’t she?

Similar to me, I was diagnosed in my 30s and still remember the impact of public shaming systems like this. Regardless of a cloud or a key or whatever it is, everyone knows the meaning behind it and that's what it functions as.

To add, one of my primary school age children told me the names of three children always on the naughty list. All of them are on SEN pathways with serious family trauma (parents in prison, addiction etc). Shaming them will help them how?

DD got put on a 'behaviour plan' that was supposed to simultaneously make her work.more quickly AND more neatly...

Luckily she was already on an assessment pathway and the psychologist involved knocked it on the head. But when I challenged it I got the usual 'I have been teaching for many years' response.

These methods are very out dated.

Well, it's quite hard to discipline kids if you literally aren't allowed to let someone briefly experience negative feelings.

Well, it's quite hard to discipline kids if you literally aren't allowed to let someone briefly experience negative feelings.

There are other emotions than shame. Especially public shame.

It's worth saying that one of the theories why so many people fear public speaking is because it is about exclusion from the group, which would have meant death in hunter-gatherer societies. Fear of public shame is hard-wired. It probably does work in the short term to control. In the long term it's harmful.

It's worth remembering that in parenting and teaching, we aren't controlling children, we're creating effective, happy adults. Short term parenting and teaching don't do that.

Writing names on the board is a common behaviour policy in many schools. Normally it's used as an early warning system to remind children to stay on task. Usually, if the issues continue and one child in particular is on there regularly, there would be a further intervention and parents and teachers would meet to discuss how to help that child going forwards.

I would check the school's behaviour policy and see what it says, all the teachers and staff in the school should be following it.