i really really suck...

[beanmonkey]

at this parenting lark. i am not sure i am going to explain how i am feeling very well but here goes. i am sahm, with 2 kids, who i completely love, ds, 3 and dd 16mths, but i feel an odd detachment to them. i find it so difficult to engage and sometimes feel quite withdrawn, despite numerous 'lying on the floor with ds immersing myself in lots of pieces of playmobil' attempts at play. i thought i would be good at being a mum, but i am sooooo disappointed in myself. i find it so overwhelming i sometimes find myself counting down the hours to when they are in bed again and i can retreat into myself. i worry so much that this is all having a detrimental effect on my ds. i don't really worry about my dd at all. i think this might have something to do with second child and feeling more confident, but the line from the philip larkin poem, they fuck you up your mum and dad, often repeats in my head.
my ds is quite close to me (i think anyway) and if he needs anything he wants me to do it, not my dh, like taking him to the loo, brushing his teeth, cutting up his food, buttering his toast, and i have got the fear that this is because i am making him feel insecure with all my 'withdrawing'. i find myself thinking it will better when they are x years old, but i did this when ds was a baby, and nothing has changed. i long to enjoy my children but i just don't know how to. i don't work but love the idea of part time but hate the idea of leaving them, but also want to do something for myself.
god i feel like shite. i am shite, and i also wish i could stop beating myself up as i sound quite self-pitying. i am not really sure what i want to hear from anyone else, perhaps this is proving quite cathartic anyway, but i don't really know what to do. i feel like i have lost all confidence and perspective in how i look after my kids.
am also a little bit scared of this being one of my first ever posts as have seen some scary responses on this website!
i have just read this all back and i sound like i am some rambling nutter but i am not. i am a 33 girl (don't feel grown up enough to be a lady!) who feels completely lost and a little bit frightened, and completely out of my depth.

Don't be so hard on yourself beanmonkey. Not everyone finds engaging with tinies fascinating. I know I didn't and remember with horror having to force myself to play duplo etc. with them. Fast forward a few years, my children are 11 and 12 and NOW I find them fascinating. They don't seem to be too traumatised by my lack of interest in their toddler pastimes.

You are not shite. You are a mother and the fact that you are concerned about this at all shows that you are a good one.

You don't suck and it's really, really hard work. Don't beat yourself up so much. What does your dh think about how you both are as parents? Is he supportive of you?

As someone who works full-time but has ds's all day Sunday on my own I can confirm that it's much easier to go to work

you've got a really hard job staying at home with them and parents find different things enjoyable/hard bloody work with their kids. for instance, I love doing arty stuff with ds's, but it drives dp bonkers and she can't do it with them. But she loves taking them to parks and I find parks really depressing, so avoid them as much as possible!

Is there anything you like doing with your two? Going out and about - library, shopping, or just watching telly with them, art stuff etc? Try and find something that relaxes you all. But also, find bits of time each day that are yours - even if it's just making a coffee while they watch telly.

Part-time work might be just what you need to restore some balance and get out meeting people. Can you sort out childcare and find something for a few hours each week? Or even childcare and you stay at home on your own (bliss!!)?

Little Kids can be hard work and so boring. Dont worry. You are doing fine. You are bringing them up and each little step gets facinating. One day and all that. Believe me every mum feels this way at some point.

You dont suck, please be kind to yourself. The fact you are engaging with the children and are talking about this shows you are a good mum

Hello. So sorry to hear you are feeling like this. It's bloomin hard isn't it?
Who knew????
I find that breaking the day down into timeslots (a bit anal but it works for me) is the best way
It's all about filling time
A walk here
Making pizzas there
Watering plants here
Reading a story there

You get the idea
It makes the day less tedious (it can all get a bit groundhoggish) and seems to keep my ds from getting too fractious
You sound like you are doing a great job - please try to stop beating yourself up

Also, there is nothing wrong with looking forward to some "head space" once the kids go to bed. I often just lie on my bed in silence and just breathe.......

get a nice little job you enjoy, leave them with a childminder you trust, and stop beating yourself up for not enjoying the inane ramblings of a 3 year old and the torturous temper of a 16 months old!

You're not remotely shite. If you want a job and it is feasable for you to work, then do it.

My boys are lucky if they get five minutes of trains. They play with each other and give it 6 months and yours will too. They'll be good at amusing themselves, and lack of ability to amuse oneself is a major contributor to misbehavior at school. You are teaching them a valuable life lesson, and it's not hurting them.

you dont suck.i still dont know what the hell im doing when it comes to parenting my oldest 2 who are 10 and 9.i am able to enjoy playing with my 2 youngest(2.4+13 months)only because i am confident in looking after them due to experience,and also because i know they grow up so fast.

is your 3 year old at nursery or anything?i found mine enjoyed the extra stimulation and socialising they got from nursery.

What they all said.

For me, self-consciousness is the killer - and trying to be someone you're not. I am starting to find a way of combining the things I believe about childrearing (childcentred, patient, stimulating) with the person I actually am (impatient, sometimes mean, often bored). But it's taken a long time.

If I could talk to my younger self I would say, just not to think about the things you're not doing, because it will stop you doing the things you are doing well.

Is that clear? Good.

Sounds to me like you are being VERY hard on yourself and judging yourself VERY harshly.

From what you describe it sounds like yu are a really good Mum.

I can never muster entuiasm to play with playmobile, infact I don't really play, they play with esch other or on thier own whilst I do jobs, and I always enjoy the time aftre they've gone to bed and reagrd this as a traet or 'me' time I never thought I was a rubbish parent (well not for these reasons anyway).

Do you judge yourself so harshly in other areas of your life? Do you often feel you are not doing well enough at things? I wonder if you are in a cycle of neagtive thought patterns about yourself and have generally low self esteem.

You sound like a geat Mum your Dc's sound very happy, you need to try to start to be able to beleiev you are doing a good job.

oh,and i meant to add that i only play with the little ones for about 15 minutes at a time before leaving them to it for a while.isnt that the point of having more than one?

And remember soon they will go to school. I loved the way it used to wear them out when they were little. Once they get older, their lives are so full of friends, activities, grandparents, homework, etc, it gets much easier if you are not the type of person to be enthralled by the company of the under 3's all day.

Once they were old enough, I was better at talking to them and making up silly songs to sing with them. They still remember the "shake your bottom" dance, fondly. And insist I do it for the amusement of their friends...

What I am trying, badly, to say is I had 2 children with a similar age gap and felt exactly as you do. I wish someone had told me this was normal and I would not feck my kids up a la Larkin. My two openly adore me and are always telling me that I am the best mother in the world. They are both extremely bright, popular, sporty and kind to others.
I did a good job despite not being mother earth. You will too.

i think there should be a little face (emoticon? am new to all this) that has corners of mouth being a little bit turned up, a bit like in the mr men story, is it mr happy i can't remember, anyway what i am trying to say is thanks, you are making me feel a bit better.
dh is completely lovely and really says the same you are all saying here, i suppose i need to find a way to be a bit more forgiving of myself.
part time work does sound perfect, i just think i need to about what i could do, no career pre kids really.
i like the timeslots idea though
ds does do nursery 4 mornings a week, and has made my life so much better, this is all coming at the end of easter holidays, with one of those weeks spent inside due to chickenpox so now i think about it perhaps i am being a bit harsh on myself, just find it soooo difficult to be rational when i feel like this.

Bean,there is a Mr Happy emoticon,look on your right to links and smileys then do a colon and close bracket

You do sound like you are being hard on yourself.

I work pt and it is a doddle compared to looking after 2 under 5 s

Welcome to Mumsnet by the way.

Ok do me a favour, write a list here of ALL the things you do for your DC's including practical things, fun things, emotional needs etc, I mean EVERYTHING. Ask your Dh to help you if you get stuck, I'm anticipating it should be a LONG list.

Also ask your Dh to tell you why he thinks you're a good Mum and write it on here to tell us.

Actually doing this will help you realise all the reasons you are a good Mum, rather than focusing on the things you think you do wrong (whioch actually just sound normal to me).

Ok I'm waiting....come on....

The easter holidays have seemed endless this year - it hasn't helped that the weather's been so bad we haven't been able to go out/chuck them out... Ds's were driving us BONKERS by the end of the holidays.

If you can afford it, why not find a nursery place for your dd for a couple of the mornings your ds is at nursery?

Dp has a part-time job at Borders bookshop - she works evenings and Sundays but enjoys it - she works in the children's books section and I think there's a fairly eclectic mix of people who work there. When ds2 starts school in September she's hoping to work 10am - 2pm every day, but I think it's just having time somewhere else that's not at home with the kids that's the main thing!

I think a lot of mothers lie about how much they enjoy spending time with their kids when they are very young for months and years on end. I know I would never have dreamt of saying this to anyone at the time as I was afraid they would take away my mummy badge. Us Mums usually do tend to find something to be guilty about if we look hard enough, especially the ones that know our childs future happiness depends on their upbringing.

And remember in a year or so they will be old enough amuse each other. My two get on brilliantly most of the time, and I'm sure that my failure to constantly amuse them has had a lot to do with this. They learned how to get along with each other very early on. I think this has helped them to make friends easily too. The only downside (not really) is that my house is the one all the kids go to, e.g I have 3 more sleeping over tonight which is typical. However, since I have spent so much time with their friends I am completely relaxed about them constantly being around. I actually like their company and have been known to turn down babysitters as I would rather be with the kids.

I think the idea that mothers should play with thier children is realtively new.

I certainly never remember my mother playing with me or my friends mothers playing with them. Playing was waht kids did with each other or on your own while the grown ups did stuff that needing doing.

Or did I just have a deprived childhood? was everyone else's mother actually playing with them with thier weebles/sindy's/girlsworld ??

interesting point SW.. any answers?

I think that pre-school answers will be different from those about older kids.

I remember my mother doing 'drama' with me and other children at a summer school (she had been a teacher and it was about Greek myths) but I can't remember any other playing, although I remember her drawing me the weird wiggy 18th century ladies that I was obsessed with..

The quicker they learn to amuse themselves, the quicker you are free from "Mummeee, do a jigsaw with meeee", "Mummee, play with meeee" while Mummy seethes with resentment for the 20th time that day.

My counsellor said when I ashamedly raised my reluctance to play with the kids with her many moons ago that it was better to say no than be a martyr, as a happy mummy is better than a resentful one. Oh the relief!

SW, my two are 11 and 12(almost 13) and I remember distinctly that I was expected to enjoy playing games with my kids. I didn't, hence the angst. I believe it was something to do with encouraging their development. I remember my mother lying on the floor encouraging me to balance, gymnast-like on her hands, legs, etc. Also singing songs with actions. Probably explains why I could do the physical/singing/taing playing but couldn't play set games. My mother is blind, so was restricted in what she could do to play with me. I never felt the loss and my mum is a brilliant mother and grandmother.

sorry for not replying, went to bed early, but have woken up feeling a bit more positive (bad english?) and more so now i have read the rest of the replies.
i have always found being a mum completely mind-blowingly difficult, not so much the making tea, getting them dressed bit, that's easy but dull. i find the emotional bit truly difficult. katiescarlett i like what you said about the martyr bit, it is so true, and the stupid thing is if i read this post from someone else i would be saying all the things you have all said to me, but it seems one rule for me one for everyone else. dum i know.
dc are brilliant at playing by themselves, i just sometimes feel like i am letting them down by not enjoying playing with them 24/7.
my perception of my mum was that becoming a mother 'completed her' and i suppose i feel a bit of a failure that i just don't feel completed and actually would like to hand my notice in sometimes.
sw, give a bit and i will come up with a list, here's hoping its a long one!
and thanks for the incredibly lovely welcome from you all.

No my mother didn't play with us - we played with each other and she made available anything we needed, or took us to the park until we were old enough to go alone, which, back then, was about five!

One of the most important things for children to learn is how to enter and inhabit their own imaginary world. The next most important thing is how to play with other children, share, take turns. A mother will play an important role in helping a child develop these skills.

Crikey I would go mad if I had to play barbie and building/knocking down towers ALL the time.
You are not letting them down by not playing 24/7, you are an adult, they are children, why on earth would you enjoy spending all your time doing their activities? You wouldn't, NO adult would.

I have questioned myself in exactly the way you are before, esp at certain times of the month I find them harder to deal with. When I was on the mini pill whilst bfing dd2 I had particularly bad, almost depressive slumps where I would beat myself up horribly, I even went to the doctor thinking I was depressed. It turns out the mini pill can do that to you, and when I stpped bfing her and went back on normal combined pill the excessive mood swings eased off a lot.

You need times in the day when you have alone time, or if not doable, then at least time when they can watch a dvd or play in the garden while you read a mag/book or MN
otherwise you lose your marbles.
Whoever suggested breaking the day up into small activity time slots is onto something, I used to do this too, as also used to watch the clock til bedtiem, and still do sometimes on trying days.

Go easy on yourself, chill out.

just in case anyone is still reading this thread am feeling much much better today. have thought lots over the weekend and realise am being too hard on myself and is completely crazy to play with them all the time. think its helped that ds went to nursery today, going to friend's house this pm, and just applied for a volunteer job. its a start, but thank you lots and lots you lovely mumsnetters.