3.5YO girl autism?l or NT?

[Gardengirl247]

Sorry no idea where this should go on Mumsnet..!!

My eldest is 3.5 and I wondered if there were NT behaviours/traits or something worth investigating-

• advanced speech from v young age, huge vocab
• very routine orientated - will ask multiple times what we are doing the next day, what are we doing this afternoon. nursery have commented on this.
• Can be emotional on return from nursery, we’ve put this down to tiredness so far but hard to tell
• Doesnt like very busy places
• Doesnt like going places for the first time or if she hasn’t been there for a long time
• Mute when meeting people for the first time (adults) - tends to warm up if left to own devices or after 2-3 encounters
• Loves books - will happily sit on her bed looking at pictures for 45mins alone
• Does intense role play - very vivid and frankly amazing imagination!
• Does make eye contact
• Does seem to make friends (toddler version!) at nursery but prefers the boys. Struggles to tell us anything about her day once home

We don’t know many other 3.5yo girls so have no idea if the above is “normal?” I’ve just read some things online that have got me putting two and two together. Advice welcome!!!

No experience or expertise in this field sorry but a few of the qualities you mention sound very similar to my little girl who is also 3.5 and I don’t have any suspicion she may be neurodiverse, pretty sure she is NT. namely the advanced vocab and always asking what we are doing each day. The other things ring less true but I know lots of kids in her peer group that do similar things eg mute meeting new people which may just be ordinary shyness. You know your child best though and if your instincts are telling you something, maybe have a word with her nursery or preschool, or speak to your health visitor? She sounds like a lovely little girl either way x

She sounds like a perfectly normal child.

That all sounds very normal to me.

All very normal

My 4yo son is similar to a lot of what's in your list - as are several of the other kids his age I know. The exception is he doesn't ask about routine very much, he'll ask what we're doing that day but not repeatedly. But lots of other things he likes to talk endlessly about instead! All seems normal to me.

She sounds like a lovely and switched-on child, but none of that screams 'definitely ND'. My very verbal and extremely imaginative 8yo we are beginning to think is probably ND, but it's taken until now to become apparent, and while she struggles with too much noise and too much going on, she can also throw herself into a busy space and enjoy it. It's normal for small children to be cautious around new people and new things. I wouldn't try to label any of this for now, especially if she's not struggling.

Sounds a lot like my 3yo and I've never suspected ND so far.

I have 2 dds with ASD. One diagnosed aged 16 (who sounds very much like your dd) and another diagnosed at 2.5 years

My older dd was talking from an extremely young age and had a huge vocabulary, very early reader and was very sociable but only with adults. She would talk to the boys at her nursery but never the girls. As she got older she got less sociable with children her age and maintained enjoying adult company. She would also be selectively mute in situations she was anxious in . She was very advanced in a lot of areas was fully toilet trained at 16 months old for example

My younger dd has delayed speech and much more severe issues , awful phobias of some very boring day to day items and situations that cause meltdowns. Severe sensory issues and delays in most areas (still in nappies at 4)

I think you should probably keep an eye on things and see how she gets on and speak to your HV or GP if worried

I agree with others, perfectly usual, her own personality.

There is a real danger that children’s differences and personalities become the start of seeking neuro diverse assessment. We are all different but still neuro typical.

Something for you to smoke at. One of my DC’s hated going anywhere for the first time, to the extent that I stopped forwarning him. Even his favourite tv show performed live in stage - he really didn't want to go, anxious, tears, refusal.
Now, as a young adult, he is the performer on the stage! 😆

( I have a background in education, including as an early years teacher, headteacher, SENCO, Early Years and Primary Ed. Adviser) .

As a clinician who diagnosis’s there is nothing to see that would make me think ASD at this age , she sounds like a perfectly normal toddler.
Once in school where her behaviour can be assessed as persistent and pervasive in another environment that will tel you if she is different from her peers
Watchfull waiting

Thank you so much everyone for your replies here. I think many of you are right in that we will see either way at school / when a bit older. She is an amazing little girl and we love her quirks, was just wondering if I was missing something… sounds like maybe but who knows

Just reading back ‘smile at’ …SMOKE….😆

It feels like we are talking about the same child in some aspects. I have just posted this: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/behaviour_development/5168095-threenager-behaviour-or-neurodiverse?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share
does it resonate at all?

She sounds quite a lot like my daughter who was diagnosed with autism aged 6. Nursery referred her to CAMHS when she was 4 but I'd queried it from age 2 (I'm a primary teacher and my husband is almost certainly autistic, and I may be ND too!) At 3 she had great language, liked to know what was happening each day/ didn't like changes to routine, struggled with transitions, and she had no idea how to interact with other children. I remember watching the children of my friends talking to each other in the playground and deciding to play hide and seek, and realising that my daughter wouldn't have a clue how to do this. She had more 'obvious'/ problematic social difficulties at this age, such as hitting other children if they were in her space or even for no apparent reason, and I think this helped push nursery to make the referral! She also had frequent meltdowns over getting dressed, leaving the park, any demands placed on her really! Her social skills improved a lot when she started school, thanks to great support from the team there (eg ELSA input), and by the time we had our assessment appointment I wasn't sure whether she would get a diagnosis, but she did. I didn't want her to have a label for the sake of it, but I wanted us to be able to help her understand herself, in particular as she gets older and social stuff becomes more complex and harder to navigate. I think she found it affirming to realise that her brain works a bit differently from other people's but that it's ok, and there are positives as well as negatives to being autistic. Life has been calmer/ smoother in many ways since we realised (pre-diagnosis) that some 'traditional' parenting methods wouldn't work and started trying different strategies - I found the Autism and PDA societies really helpful (I think she has a somewhat demand-avoidant profile, but really if a strategy works who cares whether it fits her 'label'?!)

Sorry that got longer than I meant but hopefully there's something useful there! Good luck! I'd advise you to talk to her key worker/ the SENDCO at her nursery and see what they say, but be aware that children don't always present the same way in different settings, and girls in particular are good at 'masking' / conforming to the expected social norms so may not immediately stand out, hence why many girls are late-diagnosed. It's great that you're on the case though!

I can see some overlaps here but also some big differences! I’d say my daughter has extreme empathy for example, becoming v upset if anyone nearby hurts themselves for example. She also says sorry, wants comfort from me, is fully toilet trained etc. Some matching traits though with the selective mutism, crazy levels of imaginative play and a need to play with me when at a park for example until I literally say no and sit on a bench nearby! After that she does show interest in other kids but wouldn’t necessarily say “plays with” but it might just be her age there (eg kids start running she starts running!!)

Thanks for sharing this! Yes I think the playing with other kids one is interesting! I think she’s too young for us to fully take something from it for now but she does a huge amount of watching and sort of copying? She’ll do some very vivid imaginative play and the other kids might not play along and then she gets upset. Alternative we hear about something she “played” at nursery non stop where again she’s copying (endlessly on superheroes right now!) I’m potentially reading too much into it but I do wonder if this is the early signs of masking / attempting to fit but being slightly on the outside. So happy your daughter is getting the support she needs.

I would just keep an eye on her. If it's not impacting her life or causing her undue stress currently then she's ok. I work with children and some are like her but NT and others we suspect may be on the spectrum. She is very unlikely to be diagnosed with anything on the basis of what you've said. Indeed, some parents choose not to diagnose even when it's clear - there are pros and cons. I believe many of us are on a spectrum, some further along it than others but it's only an issue if it's making life unbearably difficult and adjustments are required in education settings (eg. 1:1 help). Even without a formal diagnosis, schools can help individual children eg. Sitting in a quieter class at lunchtime, showing them a daily routine etc. if they see a child has a specific need which can be met.