How would you approach this gently

[Orangepen13]

Trying to gentle parent my 2yr 8mo old is exhausting. How would you approach this?

child is 6 weeks into potty training. We have two rules: we try before we leave the house, and when she wees in her knickers she helps clear up by taking them to the washing machine. We brought this one in because she keeps starting to wee in her knickers and we wanted to make it more significant - I don’t know if this is right or not.

She was already having a natural consequence because she refused to try before she was supposed to go to the vets with my partner, so she stayed at home with me. Then about 5 minutes she weed in her knickers before getting to the potty. I told her to take her knickers to the washing machine (careful to have full attention) and she ignored me. I told her to take them
again and she said “no” and just stared me down. I said for a third time in a firm voice “it is time to take your knickers to the washing machine now” and she just flat out said “no” and stared at me.

my baby was screaming, which probably informed my next move, which was to stand up, tell her I need some space, and left the room. I was furious, so this came out with an edge to my tone and a stomp.

we’ve talked about it since but in my reflections I’m just not sure how to have been authoritative and hold the boundary with this flat out refusal. Any advice?

I agree starting to potty train at a young age when there's a new baby in the home was a bad idea.

Punishing her by refusing a vet trip seems unnecessary, I'd have said 'oh well let's put your nappy back on and off we go.'

I don't really understand the whole gentle parenting thing, surely all parents aim to be patient, kind, loving parents but we're not perfect so we just muddle through and do our best!

She isn’t ready.
Dont tell you child you need space. She has absolutely no concept of what that means because she is 2. When she gets older she will understand it and it will hurt very much because she is your Mum and she needs you to be there. Better to just say nothing and walk away. Your child isn’t responsible for your emotional needs and reactions.
2 year olds like to say no because they can.
Try have her bare bottomed, outside in the garden if possible. With the potty and toys. Watch her and when there are signs on the potty quick - not asking. It’s a firm but kind order. With something to do - a story. Lots of praise for a wee.
If inside. In room, door shut similar concept.
On the flip side with a toddler hurtling towards terrible 2s and threenagerdom , not showing much interest and a new baby I’d be tempted to leave it for a bit - say a month.
Mine loved going to choose pants and a potty. Didn’t mean they used it for a while. But they all get there.
Often children will tell you when they are ready, at three my second dc just said no more nappies and that was that. But he was a second DC.
Dont stress. She won’t be going to school in nappies. But frankly with potty training the gap between them realizing they need a wee and the wee coming is so short there isn’t time to gently get them on the potty. It’s more like (initially) popping it under them and plopping them down. Maybe with a favorite book. Or have them sit in it after a drink/meal while they watch tv.
Good luck!!

You’re making it too stressful for her. Offer rewards, ignore accidents.

It seems like she isn't ready. The more you push the more she will push back. Potty training shouldn't be a terrible time filled with punishment. I would give it a break for a few months and try with a different approach.

This thread is actually being derailed by the potty training bit.

The question you need help with as far as I see it is "what do I do when my child refuses to do something I've asked"

And as far as gentle parenting goes this has always seemed very hard which is why we didn't go all in for that approach!

I used to ask a couple of times, if you get refusals, ask a third time and also explain the consequence / reward. Ask again. If refuse, action the consequence.

Now DS12 and DD9 are very helpful now and generally do what they're asked first time. Makes life so smooth!

I would just put her back in nappies and try again later. Most children train within a week, i honestly had to read the '6 weeks' bit twice. Something is not working there. My dd did it at 2 years 1 month in 5 days and it never occurred to me to make her take her knickers to the washing machine - too negative. Just go crazy with the chocolate buttons when they do it right and it will be a much more positive experience for all.

Thank you all for the input - I can see now with outsider perspectives that my frustration and frazzled-ness from the day made a punishment out of something that shouldn’t be. I’ll stop enforcing her to put underwear in the washer, and instead take the less pressured approach a few have really helpfully suggested.

as said earlier, we’re not stopping potty training. She only has a few drops in her knickers and I’m not mad at her about that - my point was more her refusal and my anger. As other people have noted, I created a power battle there that needn’t have happened and responded at best i helpfully, at worst cruelly.

its been a good learning curve for me, though I’m sorry that it happened to my child. Feeling a bit guilty and sore from it now.

Try the Oh Crap potty training method. I think when it comes to accidents, if I remember correctly, it recommends saying something like 'you need to wee in the potty' eg just repeat what should be done. It advises against saying 'oh dear, don't worry, it was an accident' type thing, as that minimises it.

I think asking her to put her knickers in the washing machine is distracting from the potty training and creating a potential battle ground if she doesn't comply. I would scrap that and instead encourage regular potty sitting (it starts off every 30 minutes in the book) and reinforcing what she's meant to do when she has an accident.

*unhelpfully not I helpfully

It sounds quite confrontational and in need of a bit more compassion.
We didn't have any consequences for accidents. I would say something like "oh dear, don't worry it will soon clean up. Shall we get you out of those wet clothes" I took her out of the wet clothes and gave her a good clean and then got her dressed again then cleaned it up. Whilst I cleaned up I ask a few questions about how it happened. Say don't worry. Sometimes she helped me take things to be washed some times she didn't. She's 4 an had an accident for the first time in about 9 months this week and we did the same. She's can be a shy and timid especially when she thinks she has done wrong. She needs a bit of reassurance that the world isn't ending because she has wet herself. We slowly potty trained her over 3 months starting with an hour a day we were at home building up to most of the day. She likes to understand how things work before she does them so this mimicked how she has learnt everything from rolling to walking to talking. It might be worth having a think about how she has learnt other skills.

She regressed with poos to the point she asked to get off the potty and have her knickers put back on so she could soil herself. She did find them a lot harder to master as she had toddler diarrhoea and food allergies that gave her more diarrhoea so had to pay more attention to pick up the cues. We popped her in a nappy and introduced some rewards. In general we avoid reward charts but occasionally we find them useful in the short term to change behaviour. We got a glass jar and 10 pom poms from her craft box. For poos on the toilet or potty she got a pom pom. She got a small prize for 5 pom poms and a bigger one for 10. After 20 we stopped doing it every time and phased it out. A few months later we did the same but for 3 wees or a poo on the toilet. Phasing it out after 15 pompoms stopping at 20. The jar just held 10 so it was quite a visual image of progress.

My gran was doubly incontinent in her later years. I learnt a lot watching how my mum handled it with great care and compassion. It's a bodily process that is associated with so much shame and avoidance. I have tried to leave this out of toileting with my daughter. She can still have soiled accidents if she's having an allergic reaction because of they are very loose and she doesn't get the notice she needs.

I also don't think she's ready for potty training yet, but you have decided to stick with it so that's by the by.

I think in more general terms, you are seriously over-thinking parenting.

You stomped and said you need space? This is not age appropriate for your daughter, and the image of you stomping and flouncing out just made me laugh.

Ease up on all the faff around taking her pants to the washing basket herself. She's only tiny. She's finding ways to control you and you're giving it all to her. You need to seriously ease up on the potty training or she'll simply use it as a way to run rings around you. You say she's having accident free days and you see this as success, but at the same time you're creating stress around it for her and giving her an opportunity to use it against you. She will start refusing the toilet as a way of gaining some control in her little life and guarantee she'll start wetting herself more and more if you carry on like this. She's confused.

The thing about toddlers is that they will push at boundaries, and it's entirely appropriate (if infuriating) for them to do so. So if you're going to tell a toddler that they need to do something, you need to be open to a battle of wills when they say no. Asking them to do it and then praising if they do is much more straightforward and gives you an out.

I wouldn't make such a big deal of the accidents, especially if it's just a couple of drops in the pants - my 4yo still does that at times so you're in for the long haul.

Don't be hard on yourself for getting angry, it won't be the last time it happens. They can push your buttons like nothing else.

dont bet yourself up about it, you are learning too.
i suggest ask if need use bathroom, but dont enforce. "trying to wee"is not ...natural? will we go see if you eed a wee while mummy washes her hands then...(tap running likely to assist more than suggest she forces it?

I don’t think gentle parenting really works with potty training. They’re either ready or they’re not, not sure natural consequences help and it sounds like she’s not really receptive to this / is feeling pressured.

Either stop potty training for now, or just take the pressure off. Next time she has an accident just say never mind, remind her to use the toilet, and get her changed. The consequence is having to get changed itself/ feeling uncomfortable in wet clothes. But personally I’d wait until she’s more ready for potty training.

We potty trained my DS around 2y4m, after a couple of months he started saying no to the potty (because he's 2 and everything was no). Just to get us over that bump we incentivised the potty by using these stickers -

10 Pcs Potty Training Stickers, Waterproof Color Changing Toilet Stickers Reusable Potty Training Seat Magic Stickers Potty Training Reward Stickers Potty Targets Stickers for Boys Girls (10 Patterns) https://amzn.eu/d/h4Lz7C3

Yes, it's a novelty factor but it got him happily using the potty again. Hope that helps.

Accidents aren't deliberate. You can't train kids out of them through thought-based methods like reasoning and consequences.

This is yet another example of so-called Gentle Parenting being anything but gentle...!

I think you’re doing great. We all snap sometimes, but the gist of what you’re doing sounds spot on. Always a good thing to reflect and think what you’d do differently next time if things haven’t gone to plan, that’s how you learn your parenting style. Hang in there!

Don't beat yourself up at all. You haven't been cruel by any stretch. You lost your cool and stepped out to calm down, I can understand the natural feeling of guilt as a mother, I would feel the exact same way, but it's not to say you have actually don't anything particularly bad. Not ideal yes but not bad and definitely not cruel,
Tomorrow is another day ❤️
Definitely avoiding setting up a battle of wills will serve you so well in future. Not only because it backs you in a corner but it also personally makes me angry every time I do that, and that sounds like what happened today for you

@Orangepen13 dont feel guilty. No parent is perfect. I’m sure you’re a lovely mum x

If I'm right the question was about parenting not potty training.

In answer to your actual question @Orangepen13 in that situation I would say. Ok, it looks like you're finding it tricky but I'm not going to ask you again, so let's go and do it together. Then I would pick her up and we'd go to the laundry basket together and we'd drop them in.

As an aside, I've just read a thread where everyones saying the OPs 2y 8m old should be potty trained by now, and now this one has everyone saying oh she's so young! Mumsnet is a wild place, Stick to your guns you're doing a great job.

Also, for PP saying you're being too hard on her - it's a consequence, not a punishment. Just like when DD spills drink at the table I get her a cloth and she wipes it up. If DD gets her clothes dirty she puts them in the laundry. Same with a wee accident, no big deal!

Too much of a battle. She's a very small girl with a baby sibling on the scene.

Just ride it out and put her knickers in the machine yourself if she won't.

Dribbles in knickers / pants are normal for recently potty trained children. DS is potty trained, very occasional accident (last one was about 4-6 weeks ago on the beach because he was having fun and we were in a strange place, he takes himself to the loo at home, he's just 3). But he has dribbles in his pants most days from "putting off" going to the loo. Unless it's bothering him I don't change him, life is too short.

This sounds too stressful. I would go with the flow more (excuse the pun). If she goes, she goes. If she wets herself, so be it. Forcing her to pick up the wet knickers and take them to the washing machine sounds horrible to me. She will learn eventually. This will improve.

Agree. Likewise if she won't go before leaving the house, don't ban her from the trip. What's the worst that can happen? Bring lots of spare clothes and all will be fine.