Bedtimes - am I creating a rod for my own back?

[Mum23456]

I can’t see the wood for the trees with my kids bedtimes at the moment. Am I doing something wrong?

I have a 9 yo and 6 yo who share the same bedroom. Both fairly high energy children, particularly the 9 yo. It takes me 2 hours to put them to bed - not including the 1 hour ‘wind down time’ beforehand. I find myself keeping them as separate as possible, reminding and cajoling them to brush their teeth and get into PJs, read them stories, stroke their backs, lie with them, keep returning to them every few minutes. It drags on. My 9 yo finally goes to sleep past 10pm and I’m ready for bed myself about 20 mins later. I’m exhausted, impatient, resentful and can’t help thinking I’m getting it all wrong.

Is this the same for everyone? Shall I just stop all this, put them to bed together, let them chatter and giggle and go in to shush them every now and then, even if they keep each other up until 11pm? Will they just regulate themselves? It’s v different during summer holidays when they don’t need to be up for school.

Or, shall I ignore calls of ‘mummy’ when I leave the room? Keep walking them back?

I'm going out of my mind. (My 6 yo is calling me as I write this and I’m saying “just wait, just give me a minute!!”)

in my opinion, kids that age don’t need to be “put to bed”. And definitely don’t need to be stroked or laid with. Yes supervise teeth brushing, and read together if they want to. But apart from that, they should be in their room and not calling for you. If they want to read or chat, fine, especially during holidays. But leave them to it. We’ve left ours to fall asleep themselves since they went in their own room at 6 months!

Why do they have the same bedtime? I'd divide and conquer eldest changing and brushing teeth etc while I read to youngest then night and say I'll pop back in 5 mins to check. cuddle and story downstairs for eldest so they go up an hour later.....don't keep going in.
Explain to eldest that they have everything they need and your sat next door doing something and will check on them if they call say I'll be in when I've finished this be quiet now.

I thought one of them was going to be a baby. 6 and 9 year olds don't need cajoling into bed.

One story and then they can read for a bit, then lights out. If they want to chat they can but they don't need a two hour bedtime.

They are way too old to be led down with unless that’s a nice part of your routine. It clearly isn’t working for you.

Just close the door and say they need to stay in their room.

lights off except a nightlight and some books

remove all tech

they can chat or whatever, but they must be quiet and stay in their beds.

fucking about and leaping on the beds and general rumpus time should lead to whatever sanctions you have in your household. It’s bedtime.

Are they low sleep needs OP? There's a spectrum of how much sleep children need at different ages. My child needs less sleep than the normal range for her age (10hrs per 24hrs vs the normal range of 11-14hrs). Whenever we start the bedtime routine she just does not sleep until she is tired, which is around 10.30pm every night. After which I just go to bed too so I feel your pain on that one.

I've found it infinitely less frustrating to have a quick later bedtime than spend hours trying to making something impossible happen.

The other thing you could think about is the need for rough and tumble, physical play just before wind down time, especially since you mention that they are high energy.

I think you'll get people saying that you shouldn't bother patting and stroking etc. but connection is really important for children to feel safe to fall asleep. Different children have different needs and I suspect that if yours didn't need that, you wouldn't be doing it! Trust your instincts.

https://www.thensf.org/how-many-hours-of-sleep-do-you-really-need/

They're 6 and 9 years?

Seriously grow a back bone.

Divide and conquer.
6yo in bed by 7pm, quick teeth, story then audio books.
9yo ASAP after.

I do ‘divide and conquer’ but unless the 6 yo is asleep when the 9 yo comes into the room, they will chat and giggle and keep each other awake. Shall I only let the 9 yo in if the 6 yo is asleep?

Personally I don’t think 10pm is a massively late bedtime for a 9YO during the school holidays and at that age I would have thought they should be perfectly capable of putting themselves to bed, and that they’ll allow you a bit of wind down/chill time whilst they’re still up by watching TV with you or doing their own thing. I would put the 6YO to bed about 7.30/8, and then allow the 9YO to go up later when they’re actually tired. Also, if it were me I wouldn’t be staying until they fall asleep, lying with them or anything like that- if it got them to sleep quickly then fine but if bedtime is taking 2 hours then it clearly isn’t working.

What consequences do other people have if their children get raucous and keep each other up?
Separate them? Take away a treat the next day? Tell them they will be tired?

They need their energy burning off through the day- get them out for long walks, jumping on trampolines, running races. Anything to knacker them out.
And drastically minimise sugar. Milk in mornings, only water in late afternoon onwards. No juice, no sweets full stop, no chocolate past a certain point or even at all if it's really bad. That helped me with my 3 year old.

Don't let them lie in. Just get them up early and knacker them out all day until they gradually go to bed earlier and easier.
Mine struggles to get to bed with the heat too.

How much exercise do they get? They need to be really worn through by the time they climb into bed so they are asleep within 15 mins. Yes, I wouldn't put DC1 to bed until DC2 is asleep if they are keeping each other up. There is no way I'd be stroking backs at that age either.

And no screens. I did a complete screen ban for a bit that helped. Then reintroduced mornings only on the threat that it will be removed again if staying up too late.

I don’t think they need consequences, rather I think your expectations are off. I wouldn’t expect a 9YO to be tired when a 6YO is tired and I wouldn’t expect a tired 6YO to have enough impulse control to not giggle and chat. I would go with separate bedtimes.

I have no answers but I am in the same boat …have ended up with a ridiculously convoluted bedtime routine with stories, music, lying down next to DD8 which goes on forever and I have no idea how to extricate myself without it causing huge meltdowns. Yes I need a backbone!

Really separate out the bedtimes, so they each both get a nice calm bedtime, so an hour a part at least with that age gap. Be clear how long you will stay for with each. You could try a token so that if they've kept this overnight by not messing about they get a treat the next day. But generally I couldn't be doing with this and would be pretty stern about it.

Wear them out, like properly. Walks, parks, as much outside time as possible. If they don't sleep, they're up early until they do!
No screens after 5.

Put the 9yo to sleep in your bed if 6yo is awake and carry them through later, or vice versa. But I would only do this as a extreme measure having tried everything else first.

Why doesn't 6yo fall asleep? How long are they left?

I don't think I went back into my dc's bedrooms once after I'd put them to bed. Not unless they threw up or something.

I agree that you need to get them up early and keep them going all day and get them to bed at a reasonable time.

Mine did go to bed at the same time because the oldest always needed more sleep than the youngest so it just worked out that way.

Mine picked one story each and listened to both stories. When the youngest was old enough I moved on to the Faraway Tree books as a bedtime story.

Then they could read/look at books until an egg timer went off that I set before I left. Usually about twenty minutes. Then they had to switch out the lamp and go to sleep.

Any chance of a second bedroom??

I would be telling them off very crossly and telling them it's time to be quiet and go to sleep. Yes consequences would be no screen time/treats/ice cream or whatever the next day if they don't quieten down and if you give a consequence you have to stick to it. It's summer holidays so I wouldn't worry too much if they're chatting quietly and are awake longer than usual BUT I would definitely not be lying with them, stroking backs etc at that age - it would be teeth, pyjamas, story or two, kiss goodnight and lights off go to sleep. Half hour max! You need to toughen up OP!

Tbh i think if you just get cross the novelty will wear off. I think it’s great you are prepared to lie with them and I always get irritated when parents complain their children aren’t sleeping but aren’t prepared to do this, as some do need it ( though 9 really is quite old for it). But it is sounding in your case as though it isn’t helping. Instead of saying I’m coming etc, I’d go in at the beginning and say you’ll stay for as long as they are trying to sleep. Its holidays now: if they muck about walk out, leave them to it and don’t go back. Ideally you’d have them in separate rooms for this. I think they are playing round with getting a reaction but equally think they can have you return. It’s one or the other. I think the novelty will wear off if you disengage and leave after the first warning. Ultimately it must be nicer having mum. But do it now as it’s the summer and you can take the risk of showing you mean you won’t return. It’s hard not to bend when you have the conflicting pressure of knowing they have to go to school. First night after they behave give them a small reward next day that you can sustain for some time . Soon it will become routine for them.

I personally wouldn’t be tolerating that and I’m not trying to be a perfect parent but you’re having to do this because they know you will! They’re old enough to not need all of that and they clearly know you’ll pander and do that. You need your time too for your own mental health and it’s exhausting you

You do need to toughen up. Teeth, stories and kiss goodnight. Reward for going to sleep and not getting up. Give them a star chart and work towards something they want at the end of the week.
if they get up/have tantrums then give them a quick hug and calmly walk them back to bed.

We used to put one to bed in our bed, she was the type you could then sleep walk into her own bed when we went up.

Older one got ready for bed whilst the younger one had stories. Then elder one teeth brushed and read to themselves.

You really do have my sympathy, as I have 9 and 7 yo boys who have always been shit sleepers and we are still staying in their rooms while they go to sleep. But our one saving grace is that they have separate rooms. I honestly can't imagine how awful the, last decade would have been if they were sharing a room. We get regular wake ups through the night too so if they weren't in separate rooms they would wake each other.
Do you only have the 2 bedrooms? If so, again you have my sympathy. I can't think of anything to help!