Bedtimes - am I creating a rod for my own back?

[Mum23456]

I can’t see the wood for the trees with my kids bedtimes at the moment. Am I doing something wrong?

I have a 9 yo and 6 yo who share the same bedroom. Both fairly high energy children, particularly the 9 yo. It takes me 2 hours to put them to bed - not including the 1 hour ‘wind down time’ beforehand. I find myself keeping them as separate as possible, reminding and cajoling them to brush their teeth and get into PJs, read them stories, stroke their backs, lie with them, keep returning to them every few minutes. It drags on. My 9 yo finally goes to sleep past 10pm and I’m ready for bed myself about 20 mins later. I’m exhausted, impatient, resentful and can’t help thinking I’m getting it all wrong.

Is this the same for everyone? Shall I just stop all this, put them to bed together, let them chatter and giggle and go in to shush them every now and then, even if they keep each other up until 11pm? Will they just regulate themselves? It’s v different during summer holidays when they don’t need to be up for school.

Or, shall I ignore calls of ‘mummy’ when I leave the room? Keep walking them back?

I'm going out of my mind. (My 6 yo is calling me as I write this and I’m saying “just wait, just give me a minute!!”)

My older boys were very active and shared a room for years, thankfully separate now as teens but when things were very bad. I would put one up and if he wasn't asleep when the other was going up, I'd let him sleep in my bed until the other fell asleep then I'd transfer him into his own bed when I was going to bed. Not ideal

My eldest was a handful (he has adhd) but also admitted when he got older that he used to mess because he was scared upstairs without me and knew if he messed, I would come up! None of my routine was ideal but with three kids, and in full time education, I just didn't have the fight!

I would, in no particular order (and same experience with 4 "night owl" kids different ages)

• do teeth, PJs etc. then let them go to bed later (you may have to nip this back towards September for school) but not all kids go to bed nicely at 8pm after a bath and a story - don't worry about too much about "how late is late" - unless they are disturbing the neighbours, or you. They WILL eventually self regulate.
• knacker them out in the daytime, don't let them sleep in, even if you have to go through the hell in the morning and the day for a while
• stop fussing over them with a gentle night time routine that isn't working for you (and not really for them either), it is time for them to learn to get themselves to sleep, you might have 2 weeks of hell, but it is worth it. I agree it sounds hard on the 6 year old, but once he has gone to sleep the 9 year old won't have much chance to do anything other.
• absolutely no screens and nothing to entertain them in the bedroom (e.g.TV) books are fine. no chance of getting them either once the door is closed. Make sure the room is genuinely safe no matter what they do, No "lively foods" (sweets etc) or too much drink later on in the day.
• Make a short diary or notes of how it goes, and what works or does not work. Treat it as a month long project.
• Hair trigger attention on them going anywhere in the house "once the door is finally closed" other than the toilet.
• Clearly you need for them to be able to seek you out and call for you, but have a list of legitimate reasons, and make this a small one. (someone is ill, having nightmares, wet the bed and so on) not just the usual wind ups between siblings. It all sounds a bit regimented, but you have to do it, or you will still be having the experience in 3 years time. Hope this helps x

Ignore the judgy responses from perfect parents.

If your kids are high energy then it's very likely that a "wind down hour" is the very last thing they need before bed. They probably need to be running, jumping, climbing, wrestling, whatever they like to do in order to burn maximum amounts of energy before they sleep.

Having had similar(ish) sleep issues in our household, here's what I'd do and what's been successful for us:

• Stop viewing bedtime as a standalone thing. It's the culmination of everything that's happened that day, and you need to be putting the groundwork in place for a good bedtime from the start of the day.

• Diet: make sure they eat a generally good diet. The odd treat is fine but the vast majority of their intake should be high quality nutrition, not sugar and chemicals. This doesn't need to be complicated or time consuming.

• Exercise: make sure they have LOTS of exercise every day. They are lucky to have a sibling who is close enough in age to play with. They need to be in the garden in almost all weathers, playing physical games (within reason) in the house and moving their bodies for most of the day.

• Screen time: this should be at a minimum, and in the run up to bedtime (after dinner?) there should be zero screen time altogether.

• Routine: have a predictable routine for bedtime every night. If they've been running around and sweating to burn energy, they'll need a bath or shower. Mine always sleep like babies after LOADS of physical play and then a shower and clean PJs. Then we read a story or a chapter, then I give them a kiss and a cuddle and they listen to their Tonie box until they fall asleep.

• Worries: if your kids are worriers or struggle with anxiety, make sure you give them opportunities to talk about anything that's bothering them earlier in the day. My DS has always been one for spilling all his worries at bedtime and then getting really upset and taking hours to be soothed to sleep. Making space to talk about things that worry him earlier in the day has helped with this.

• Mornings: get them up in the morning at a decent time. No massive lie ins. Stick roughly to your routine even during the holidays.

Good luck!

Yes, I think so. I’d read a story, give them a cuddle, but that’s it.

If they are high energy and not winding down well, try more exercise in day and no screens close to bed.

Try putting the little one to sleep in your bed and carrying her through when asleep - the shared bedroom makes it harder.

Nope. I had a fairly strict bedtime routine from first day home as babies.
At the age your are it was 'time for bed - brush your teeth I'll run the bath'. Mine were less the two years apart so they did have same bedtime. You get first in bath and then while I read her a story older in bath. Nighty night to younger, lights out door shut. Then older in bed, they'd probably read a story to me or not at all, lights out door shut. Unless they were ill I rarely heard from them until the morning.
You are being too indulgent. They are old enough to know when bedtime is and not need extra stories or back being stroked or certainly not you lying down with them! And if they can't get to sleep they can read for a bit.

Ignore the judgy responses from perfect parents.

What an incredibly ridiculous thing to say on a thread filled with support and ideas on how she can make some changes, something which she wants to do.

To then go on with a huge post detailing 'here's what I do' is staggering! How can anyone lack self awareness so much? It's honestly breathtaking.

Gosh! That's a lot of work.

Bedtime here is easier as they are in different rooms.

But 7yo goes to bed at 8pm, PJ's, teeth, chapter of a book, left alone to go to sleep. 9yo similar but at 9pm, I leave her to read for 10 minutes then lights out, but she's got an MP4 player and can listen to suspicions until she drops off. Historically she's had a lot of sleep issues and this is working very well right now. 15 minutes per child.

My thoughts are to split yours up, so different bedtimes. No more back stroking. Transition to popping back to check on them, at longer and longer intervals. Maybe you just need a wee? Maybe you are just putting the washing away? Something they know you are there, at first.

However I shared a room with my sister until I was 18 and we absolutely did chatter away. I have very fond memories. I think though that you need to get some order to things first then maybe you can end up in this place.

I was the kid that was still awake when I heard my parents go up to bed. I always had to pretend to be asleep as I got in trouble for not being asleep.
Through my teenage years I would be in bed reading until the early hours with a keen ear on my parents room in case the woke for the loo so I could turn the light out before they could see.
I'm bipolar and a night owl both have had an impact on my sleep. Given the choice and off meds I would sleep 2am -10am sadly that doesn't fit with modern life. My meds for my mood are sedating and this has given me a more normal body clock but it means mornings are hard.

I think you have two problems. 1 children that aren't tired at bedtime and children that keep one another awake. I would be firmer with the talking to one another but be more flexible with the bedtime. Listening to the radio really helps when I can't get to sleep so maybe introduce some audio books or podcasts that they can listen too whilst going to sleep.

What is the sleep set up in their shared room? I wonder if it would be possible to divide the room for sleeping so they can't see each other with a curtain or collapsible barrier?

Well obviously I wasn't referring to the helpful responses, was I 🙄

Not sure what's "breathtaking" or "staggering" about sharing tips with someone who's literally asked for advice. What a weird comment.

Thank you so much for this.

And thank you to everyone for your messages. This place can feel like a lifesaver when you’re feeling like you’re struggling alone with things.