He’s lying isn’t he?

[Unopenedpackofmenssocks]

DS just turned 8. This afternoon he had two friends round and I offered everyone a cookie from a batch I made yesterday, went down a treat. After his friends left he was a bit disappointed they didn’t stay longer so I let him have a second cookie to cheer him up, made it clear that was a special treat and 2 in one day was plenty.

I went upstairs to get on with some work and I heard the sound of something falling. “What was that noise DS?” I shouted downstairs. “I don’t know Mummy.” came the reply. I was in middle of something so once I was sure he was OK I just got on with my work.

About 20 mins later DH comes home and I hear him say to DS “what is this jar doing broken on the floor”? “I don’t know Daddy”. DH tells him he is bang to rights and he’s obviously been sneaking a cookie. This is done in a gentle “what are you like, cheeky monkey” way not a serious telling off, but DS gets upset and insists that he was nowhere near it and it must have fallen all by itself. This escalates into some quite intense “How can you accuse me of lying? and DS insisting that if he was trying to be sneaky he would not have left the jar on the floor.

The jar is as in the pic. It’s plastic so it hadn’t shattered or anything, but the lid had detached. I honestly can’t say if I left it open or closed, or how many cookies were in it when I went upstairs, but could it possibly have overbalanced if the lid was open like in the picture? We don’t have any pets, nor does the house shake when trains go past or anything!

DS was adamant that he was being falsely accused. Came to me crying that Daddy didn’t believe him. Insists he was in a different room when the jar fell.

Thing is though, he is really quite obsessed by those cookies and has form for fibbing.

Neither of us has been able to break him, he is absolutely doubling down, to the point that I started to doubt myself and now I’m starting to worry that he will forever bear a grudge against his parents who did not believe him when he was telling the truth.

What do we do? Do we drop it as we only have circumstantial evidence and risk alienating our son forever, or do we trust our instincts and punish him for telling lies? I worry that he’s getting a kick out of fooling us and that needs to be nipped in the bud, but he is only 8!

This is somewhat lighthearted but there is a serious concern underneath it- what do you do with an 8 year-old who seems to be a bloody good liar?! Enrol him in drama school and hope that keeps him out of prison?

I’ve had many moments like this as a teacher and a parent. I’ve learnt to say, “only you know the truth so if you didn’t do it, don’t worry about it, but if you did, maybe have a little think about what you can do differently next time.”
And then move on. Some children lie all the time and very convincingly. It takes time for them to learn and it helps if you model being honest and admitting mistakes so they can see it’s not a big deal.

This was all a bit much over a cookie from you and your DH. I would have let it go, not gone on and on about it. We had similar (but a whole box of chocolates) I tickled DD’s tummy and told her not to eat too many chocolates as she’ll make herself sick. She was grinning because I know and she knows she ate them but she also knows I’m not going to be interrogating her about it for ages. She tends to fess up because she knows we’ll take it with good humour.

The bigger an issue you make of things the more likely he is to be secretive. I know this isn’t actually about the cookie but in his mind he’s going to have to double down about it either way. I would leave it.

Oh for goodness sake.

OP I think you're getting an unjustifiably hard time! Of course you're worried about him lying.

Imo @VashtaNerada has great advice

This is how I would approach it too.

This time just leave it. It’s a cookie and he’s already crying about it; it’s gone too far.

Me too. It’s a biscuit. Two isn’t enough.

Oh believe me the tears started to flow suspiciously quickly…

Can you cry on cue? I sure can’t. Amazing that your kid can.

I know, right? I hear that some people are so good at it they get paid to do it. Apparently the trick is to think of a really really sad thing that happened to you in the past, like not being allowed a third biscuit.

You drop it but lock up the cookies in future. Yes he's almost certainly lying but you cant prove it. I'm surprised you dont know how many cookies you made and how many were eaten though.

VashtaNerada has a good approach. “only you know the truth so if you didn’t do it, don’t worry about it, but if you did, maybe have a little think about what you can do differently next time.”

@Unopenedpackofmenssocks

To be honest, I think it's a lot of fuss for a cookie. My line was always "well, you can have another so long as you check there's enough for everyone, but when they're gone, they're gone"

But right now, in your situation, I'd just leave it. One thing I regret about my own past parenting is a tendency to escalate things. And I think it's better to occasionally believe a possible lie than disbelieve a truth.

The question really is “why would he lie about it?”

What a massive drama over nothing.

This sounds like a good approach.

@Unopenedpackofmenssocks this is not what you asked about but please ve careful about using food as an emotional salve. Emotional eating is a hard habit to break.

He’s probably crying because he’s worried about being punished, feeling guilty for lying etc. The tears can be genuine AND he can also be lying about the cookie.

I’d say this as suggested by PP “only you know the truth so if you didn’t do it, don’t worry about it, but if you did, maybe have a little think about what you can do differently next time.” Then forget about it.

OP, your son is 8. Lying is developmental in children. All children do it at some point. How we handle it is what matters.

Tune out the hyperbolic posts which are bashing you and focus in on the good advice. There's lots of it and you know yourself which posters are right.

It's not nice to see lying in our children, but you did it and your husband did it as children too. All children do it at some point. You've mishandled this one but you can fix it and move on.

Look particularly at @VashtaNerada 's advice

I’ve learnt to say, “only you know the truth so if you didn’t do it, don’t worry about it, but if you did, maybe have a little think about what you can do differently next time.”

Your son needs to learn his own internal compass of morality, not just to feel shame and scorn from others. Move on from this one and when it's a distant memory in a few weeks or months, read the boy who cried wolf with him but don't link it to this event.

Totally this. The kid is eight, and it's a bloody cookie for God's sake. Otherwise 'honest' kids of that age may tell fibs about stuff if they panic in the moment or (relevant, maybe?) fear some kind of punishment or hard time over a trivial matter. Coming on to them like the police interrogating a terrorist will produce more lies, not fewer. Believe me, I know. Also, as detailed by another person here, not being believed when you are telling the truth can be catastrophic for a parent-child relationship over decades or a lifetime (and I know that too). Do you actually like your child?

I always went with a long stare and 'ok' and move on. Usually they crumbled like a cookie during the long stare and if they didn't either they weren't lying or they weren't going to tell me anyway and the whole affair needed to be left with their conscience. If you make lying easier/more pleasant than telling the truth they're going to lie aren't they.

@Yourethebeerthief

read the boy who cried wolf with him

I got the story of Ananias for my pains.

Remove the pressure.

Lying is a self defence mechanism, and is used to protect yourself from the shame of doing what you shouldn’t have done.

The only way to avoid it is to get a sense of proportion.
Yes, I tried to take another cookie. So what? Obviously you’d punish a child if he spoke like that.

Don’t try and make him confess. It’s awful. He’ll get ever more trapped in his own lies and there’s no safe way out.

‘oh no, those cookies were calling to you, hey? Oh well. There won’t be any more til next week but there’s still one each left for dad and me so no harm done.’

You come across as really quite odd OP.

Id just say I believed him as I know he wouldn't lie to me but you'd be really disappointed if he lied to you and people end up in more trouble for lying. Lay it on thick and then leave it.

Let it go, stop bugging the poor kid over a cookie!

The OP is embarrassed, upset at the reactions of the posters here, and is doubling down on her stance because she feels backed into a corner and scolded.

Something to think about there OP in relation to your son's reaction.

Id have just said I know nobody else was down here and cookie jars don't walk themselves so I'm disappointed that you haven't been honest and owned up lying is worse than taking an extra biscuit and once people know you lie they don't believe you in important things.
I wouldn't have gone all good cop bad cop and tried breaking him