What's your take on immunization?

[elly1255]

This thread isn't about me or immunization for my child. ‼️‼️

I have a friend that has a 9 week old that isn't getting her child her imms due to reasons I do not know.

I just wanted to know do people do this? What's your takes on ims?

My boy has his next week , how was your children after? I have other children but can't remember how they was after the first ones.

The problem is that it's not just whats best for their child. It's about all of us as a society - we need people to be vaccinated to protect those who can't be and who are more vulnerable.

I'm all for individual choice etc, but I think it's actually starting to go too far in some contexts because individual choice starts to harm others.

We impose rules on the road so that everyone is safe. We insist that supermarkets have high standards for food preparation and storage so that individuals don't have to make potentially harmful choices through lack of knowledge/lack of funds (ie assessing/choosing food). Vaccinations should be the same.

I avoid discussing it with people because I don't want to damage friendships over it, but the reality is that the moment I find out someone is an anti-vaxxer, I immediately think less of them and want less to do with them. A man I vaguelly worked with once said, "we chose not to vaccinate but we obviously accept everyone makes their own choices" and it was like a switch went off in my brain - I went from liking him very much to wanting as little to do with him ever again. I feel the same way about one branch of DH's family.

Also, the correlation between anti vaxxers and crazy conspiracy types is worryingly high (see again DH's family).

Some think the greatest human achievement of the 20th century was the moon landings. I think it was the eradication of smallpox in the 1970s. It couldn't happen today with a significant minority who reckon they know better than the professionals.

I also think that social media and general globalisation can be a problem because people don't seem to be able to assess risk. They see a news report about a baby suffering as a result of a vaccine and they immediately see that as a risk. When in fact, the fact that it's a news report, or can flash around the world via SM is because it is SOOO uncommon. I mean, we all know people who have died of cancer and/or who have cancer and/or have recovered from cancer, but I bet that vast bulk of our social media streaming doesn't discuss it. Why? because it's not newsworthy - it's just something we all know is happening.

Its like when you see those posts on facebook "warning" about x or y, then inevitably within a few hours you'll have received it via 5 whatsapp groups. 10 seconds of googling and 9/10 the original post was from 3 years ago in some random place 4000 miles away in a completely different context. But you'll get a bunch of people saying, "well, it COULD happen here".

It's bonkers. SIL once had a complete go at me because I wasn't prostrate with fear about DS walking around by himself because there'd been an alleged attempted abduction of a child locally. She was completely oblivious to a) the details were never clear but it looked like a domestic dispute b) the child was younger than DS by a number of years c) the child DID NOT GET ABDUCTED.

I've got an autistic child who is non verbal and I wish I had just had given him the most serious disease vaccinations separately as he was only a few pounds in weight when he had his 3m vaccines and there were around 12 different vaccines in that jab, then at 12m he had more and each time it seemed to affect his development.

When he was diagnosed it turned out he had an underlying genetic condition and the vaccinations shouldn't be given to those with a genetic condition but you don't find out until it's too late.

He has a twin who was not affected but she was a higher weight at birth (and doesn't have a genetic condition), so it's a bit of a lottery and it's safer just to get separate jabs than put a 3m old baby through such a high level of vaccines together, causing brain damage in some vulnerable children.

I totally agree about them harm it can cause and as I said I'm 100% pro vaccine. My point is simply that some people do have their own legitimate reasons for not vaccinating and its unfair to categorise all of them as conspiracy nuts until you do fully understand their logic, which might involve their private medical circumstances which you're not entitled to.

And truthfully even if its not a legitimate medical issue - if they are essentially a victim of the vast amounts of misinformation online then isolating them is also just letting them sink further into their own echo chamber. The misinformation online is SO harmful because what it does is prey on peoples fear for their children. Refusing to engage is not actually going to help them to see that their information isn't correct. The only way to do that is to continue to engage in a mutually respectful way. In ops circumstances my issue would be more that the friend has been hugely disrespectful of ops choices. Respect needs to go both ways. I think it's a shame that society now is very quick now to cut off anyone who they disagree with. We're losing the art of respectful debate.

@Lavender14 in my experience, people who don't vaccinate for specific reasons, are open and honest about it. I know two families in this situation - one was becuase the child was immunocompromised due to cancer and subsequent treatment and the other was becuase the older sibling had had an allergic reaction so no further immunizations for him and it was recommendd they wait until the younger brother was older.

I do take you rpoint about the echo chamber... except that I find by the time they're down the crazy anti vax route, you're not going to get them out. DH's cousin started with anti vax. Today she really believes A list celebs are eating babies....

Your ex friend is a twat and a bad, irresponsible parent. If her kid gets mumps later on and ends up infertile or dead, she wouldn’t have my sympathy-he would of course. Vaccines save lives.

There are definitely anti-vaxers around, but I'd instantly lose all respect if I found out someone I knew had chosen for let their child be at risk from preventable diseases. To me it's very close to neglect, in the same kind of category as not taking kids to dentist, or for eye test when needed, or refusing medication because you believe in herbal remedies.

I know one person who was anti vax, anti anything really. There were entirely homeopathic 🙄 Didn't even give calpol for temperatures.

They were also constantly ill.

Interestingly, though not unsurprisingly, the DC once she was an adult, and studying for a biomed degree, gradually got all her vaccines.

I wouldn't stop being friends with someone with anti vax views, but I would silently question their critical thinking skills.

I wouldn't stop if she hadn't of called me dumb& stupid for wanting my child vaccinated

The risks of not getting vaccinated far outweigh those of having them, for me it was a no brainer. There was never a question my children wouldn’t have all the vaccinations. Our local council recently put out a health warning for measles and whooping cough, and I can’t understand how any parent could risk it. Mine also had the chicken pox vaccine, paid for privately, and while it’s done the rounds several times in nursery, mine have never had it.

Mine didn't have any reaction that I can remember with any clarity. I know people who haven't vaccinated their children and it doesn't bother me personally.

The thing with not vaccinating is that most people are relying on other children to be vaccinated to protect theirs. That's fine if your child can't have a vaccine, but not really fine otherwise. Because the diseases the vaccines prevent haven't really been circulating as they did in the past, some parents have become complacent, in my opinion. They don't actually really believe their child will get most of these illnesses. If they did think it was almost certain they'd catch them, as in the past, would they behave differently?

I was at a clinic a couple of weeks ago with my son for a missed teenage vaccine and she was chatting to us about the prevalence of measles at the moment. I wouldn't like to risk that if I had a baby. I also wouldn't risk tetanus because it's practically a given that at some point a child will have an injury which is deemed a risk for it. I also know of a young person who died extremely suddenly from meningitis. There was not enough time to seek treatment. I had mumps as a child and I felt so bad I can still remember it.

People can make their own decisions, but they shouldn't be complacent about the reality.

My dc were all vaccinated with the ones offered by the nhs. There are risks with vaccinations but they are miniscule and the risks of complications of you get the disease is much higher. Dc4 got the runs and awful nappy rash after both the rotavirus ones but none of the others had anything other than very mild symptoms.

My take is vaccines save lives. My DF lost his mobility before he could even walk to Polio as no vaccine available. I have scars on my lungs due to measles as vaccine became available too late.

My DC are fully vaccinated and so are the DGC. One DGC just had 8 week vaccine and was just a bit grouchy.

I actually stopped being friends with one of my best friends because she became anti vax. It all started during covid. Her first child she got vaccinated, covid hit and the conspitheories began and she got sucked into all sorts of nonesense about vaccinations - she once tried to convince me the MMR causes autism, that old chestnut. She has a 1 year old and she didn't get her vaccinated and when it came to me having my first child I made it clear that I didn't want her child around mine until my son was fully vaccinated. We haven't talked since.

Yes, if someone, who is unable to differentiate between a doctor who has studied for many years and some random on social media, called me dumb I would also not engage with them any further.

My take is that it's not a 'take'. It should be as routine as getting car insurance when you buy a car.

I want to the Thackray Medical Museum recently and remembered this thread when in the section about vaccines.

We have forgotten what life was like before vaccines and just take for granted how safe we are from smallpox, which has been completely eradicated by vaccines, and polio which is now only endemic in two countries.

People who don't vaccinate are the modern equivalent of idiots who fell for false messiahs and snake oil pedlars in days of yore. Just jaw-droppingly dense.

Hi guys, my babies ims got moved from today to next week that won't affect anything will it with him being 10 weeks next week? I built myself up for these because I have severe health anxiety but they cancelled not sure why must of been an emergency though.

Oh that’s tough given you’d got psyched up for it. Maybe someone was off ill or something. Hope it goes ok next time!

Having them slightly later won't make them less effective or side effects worse. My LO was 3 weeks late having them due to illness and she's been fine.

Also relating to the anti vax topic I've always been pro vax as a Nurse. Last year I missed my flu jab for the first time in my career due to being on holiday at the time my apt was and completely forgetting to reschedule. I ended up hospitalised for a week with pneumonia caused by flu. I was told had I come in a day later I'd have been full blown septic and my outlook poor. I had a 6 year old and 8 month baby at home that could've been left without a mother. This reinforced into me to remind everyone the importance of vaccines.