Drowsy but awake - how do you do it

[DLH1992]

Hoping for some answers or solidarity as I am so sleep deprived and at my wits end. So much so this is my first mumsnet post. DS (first baby) is 18 weeks and the 4 month sleep regression hit at 16 weeks. He now is only sleeping for 45 minutes at a time and is needing to be BF back to sleep each time. Everytime I'm about to fall asleep, he wakes and it is killing me. Before this he was sleeping for 3-5hrs at a time each night, just waking for a breastfeed and nappy change. He is combi fed and has a formula bottle at lunch time and at tea time but other than that is BF. I have always BF him to sleep and he has always only contact napped. He has reflux and is on gaviscon which has massively helped. DH is really trying to help, taking over at 3am so I can get 3 hours sleep in before he has to leave for work, splitting sleep shifts over the weekends etc but it's not sustainable as DH works away a lot and when he's away I'm on my own. We are desperately trying everything we can to get DS to go into his next2me 'drowsy but awake' but he just screams and is inconsolable until he's back on the boob. I've seen such conflicting information online. All the BF support groups say self soothing is developmental and will come with time, all the sleep coaches say it needs formal sleep training. I cannot bear for him to cry himself to sleep so CIO etc is not an option. He has slept the odd 2-3 hour stint since the regression hit so I know he can do it but its mostly every 45 minutes and then it's taking me at least half an hour to get him back down without him waking and the process starting again! Would love to hear peoples experience!

Have you tried cosleeping so you can rest and feed at the same time? Use the power of boob to get him back down. Eventually the sleep regression will get better. Mine also woke every 45 mins at that age. It’s awful but it seems like a life time ago now. Can you try to go to bed earlier instead of trying to get a stretch in the middle of the night?

I still spit those words like the foulest of swears. My eldest baby also had reflux and just didn't have the drowsy but awake setting - she's six now and still doesn't really. I'm not convinced there's anything you're doing wrong here.

We also had the four month regression and it was hell, I don't think we did anything in particular to get through it, she just got there herself I think (although I'm not sure I trust my memory of that time!). She actually turned into a pretty good sleeper when we moved her to her own room at 7 months.

My youngest did come with the drowsy but awake feature fitted, she also didn't have reflux. Completely different baby and now they're older a completely different personality. She actually understands when she's tired and that the cure for that is to go to bed!

I think you just need to strap in and accept you're not in charge.

I was the same as you. My son was breastfed to sleep and would wake every hour. I decided to get a 'sleep coach' and he slept through from night 2. Unfortunately it was a form of cry it out but it worked wonders for us. 1st night was difficult but after that he's slept through everything since and does naps in his cot.
Our method was...bath, nappy on, bottle, clothes on, sleepsuit and place in cot. Set timer, when baby cries for 5 mins, go in and say 'good ignt, sleepy time now' , leave room and set timer again and repeat, re set timer if there are pauses in cries or crying lessens. First night be cried on and off for 30 mins and then self settled. He woke up twice that night and each time cried less, 20 mins and then 10. Second night he slept through and had done ever since.
It was a god send for us but I appreciate it's not for everyone. Hoping someone comes along and gives you other advice
Hope you are managing to look after yourself. I know how you are feeling

Drowsy but awake is a mythical state that I never managed to achieve with either of my babies. I think it's made up.

Dc1 was still not sleeping through when dc2 arrived so at that point we decided to go with a 'most sleep for the most people' strategy. In practice this meant me co-sleeping (safely, per guidelines) with dc2.

@fashionqueen0123 I was dead set against Co sleeping as I'm such an anxious FTM but out if desperation I tried it and he feeds fine but then the second I pull away he reacts the exact same way he does when I put him down in the cot, its like he has to be in my arms or he won't settle. I really don't feel comfortable falling asleep with my nipple in his mouth as I'm genuinely terrified of suffocating him! We've really nailed down a routine now so I go to bed with him by 7 every night. Which in theory should make me feel better but because I can't drift off in 45 minutes, it ends up making the nights feel so much longer! I think I'm extra on edge now waiting for the 45 minutes mark whichcstops me from resting during his sleep!

@CelesteCunningham thanks for sharing your experience. Good to hear a positive re DC2 as we are a little traumatised by our refluxy baby. We adore him beyond words but having been set on 2 babies the whole ten years we've been together, we are now very unsure if we could cope with a second! We have both agreed to just try and take each day as it comes but after the first wake up of the night I already feel the strength leave me!

Agree. It’s a complete myth. Babies desire being held.

Worse was that I bought into the drowsy but awake thing at first and spent a miserable few weeks thinking I was doing something wrong when putting her down instantly woke her up no matter how drowsy she’d been. And when I think about it… it makes sense! They are vulnerable creatures and they know being away from their primary caregiver could be the difference between life and death in nature.

We got the most sleep when we put away the baby books and leaned into the contact naps, regressions, and periodic teething disturbed sleep. They all get to a good place with their sleep in their own time and when they are developmentally ready.

@Hazzyyy thanks for sharing your experience! I really wish I had it in me to do CIO. DH tried it for a day last week, it didn't faze him at all (he wore earplugs) I told him to do exactly what you said but for 3 mins but he was at it for 2 hours and we caved. I had to sit downstairs with the TV on as loud as possible and even though I couldn't hear DS crying, I sat cuddling the dog and crying like an idiot. Not sure how I'm surviving on such little sleep but grabbing it whenever I can and DH is very very supportive, I just hate him being exhausted and driving off to work each day so I try and limit relying on him through the night.

@Hedonism @Elliesmumma thanks for sharing your thoughts! The thing that frustrates me the most is everything everywhere says contact naps are good, baby doesn't realise they are a separate being for months after birth, feeding to sleep is fine etc. So I fully embraced it and to be honest have absolutely adored contact naps and feeding to sleep, I looked forward to bed time to have that special sleepy bonding time. Then the regression hits and everything you read says if you feed to sleep, stop it immediately or you're creating a rod for your own back and sleep training is essential. The only way around it seems to be to co sleep which I am really reluctant to do because 1. He still doesn't settle or sleep better and 2. I won't sleep well because I'll be so anxious.

No need to be making decisions about going again when you're in the trenches.

In many ways my easier experience with my second healed some of that trauma from my first - I truly know now that it wasn't me, she just couldn't do it.

This will pass. And not only will you and your DH be happier when you're getting sleep, but so will your baby!

@CelesteCunningham thank you for the encouraging words they are very much appreciated!

I was a lot happier once I'd binned all the books, and accepted that nighttimes would be rough for the foreseeable. I totally agree with @Elliesmumma , you have to go with the flow and keep the faith that it will all sort itself out on the end (it will, I promise).

My baby also had a terrible sleep regression at 4 months. Honestly, it didn't settle until around 8 months (I was terrified she'd immediately fall victim to the 8 month sleep regression but she didn't!)

We moved her to her own room at 9 months and that's when she started to "self soothe". I noticed one night when I was so tired after feeding her that I just put her back in her cot and left the room. She got herself back to sleep. I started to just put her in drowsy but awake during all night feeds. After a couple of weeks, I started to do it for bed time too. So I'd breastfeed and then just plonk her in and leave the room.

By about 10 months she started to sleep through a couple of times a week. By 12 months she was sleeping through pretty reliably.

I considered sleep training many times when I was in the pits of exhaustion, but I always ended up wanting to give her "more time". I'm glad now that we let her figure it out for herself. That said, I've never spoken to anyone who sleep trained and regretted it.

I know everyone says it, but it really is just a phase. It's not forever. I hope it improves soon! X

Have you tried a dummy?

I was against them. And then I had children.

Just a note of solidarity that it’s tough, we were exactly where you describe too. The four month sleep regression hit hard. Co-sleeping and BF to sleep was the only thing that saved us (don’t think I could have done it otherwise). It did take research, practice and confidence to feel safe though (could you start with naps, staying awake yourself or getting partner to watch if you fall asleep too, and see how it goes?). Like many other posters, I didn’t (and still don’t at 14 months!) have a baby with the “Drowsy but Awake” setting (he just screams the second he goes in his cot awake) – and didn’t want to do CIO either. So I think it’s really just something you have to find a way of living with, and getting rest however and whenever you can. Doesn’t make it any easier though! Sending all the support. Xx

@Ducksurprise he was happily taking a dummy from birth until his tongue tie was cut at 6 weeks old and he's refused one ever since. We do keep trying, I think we've got about 7 different brands but he's having none of it!

If you are combifeeding, and happy about it - try a bottle during the night? It does tend to make them wee more (and the wet nappy would wake my daughter) but it meant we got 2h or 4h blocks, rather than 45mins. I found regular waking all night was linked to hunger.

Be aware that it will result in a milk supply drop. Feeding during the night is the best thing to maintain your supply.

@Mistralli we did consider this but he's barely feeding from me most of the night he's just comfort nursing to settle back off to sleep. He probably feeds properly around 2am which I'd say is probably his only actual feed through the night that isn't for comfort. So I've just assumed he isn’t hungry but I.might try it for a night or two and see what happens. I do worry about my supply dropping though!

what about if you get your partner to go upstairs with you, so you can cosleep but actually fall asleep. He could always watch an iPad or something? Then if it gets to 40 minutes and he sees your baby stirring he could try quickly picking them up and seeing if he can get them back down.
Totally agree with the other posters about don’t worry about what those books are saying about often mythical drowsy but awake stuff! There was even a study done a while back which showed some of these books were making new mums anxious compared to ones who didn’t read them :)

Babies evolved to want to be held. A baby who was happy not to be held would probably get eaten by a wolf or something. Thats why “putting your baby down drowsy but awake” is bollocks.

I co slept, with my arm around my baby and my nipple in her mouth. It fucked up my boobs but I was desperate for sleep. It was the only way she would go to sleep.

Is it worth reviewing the reflux again. Reflux can peak around 4 months it might be that the gaviscon is no longer enough and omperazole needs to be considered.

I coslept it was the only way to get sleep. Reflux still wakes up my daughter aged 4. Also I still go to sleep with a cuddled aged 36. The arms of another person help the day melt away. I'm quite happy to let my daughter go to sleep this way for as long as she needs. She fed to sleep until 18 months. Fed to sleepy then cuddled to sleep until aged 2.5-3 and since then she is fed on the floor with a book then has a book in bed followed by a cuddle.

You could stack habits so whilst she is comfort feeding rock her, shh her or tap her bottom. Then hopefully you should then be able to unlatch and keep her asleep by keeping up the other habits. We could do this with some success from 8 months but I know others that have done it earlier.

Hey my baby is 6 months and sleep regression hit about 5 weeks ago, she was waking every hour, i am glad to say we are slowly coming out the other end she will now sleep for 2-3 hours and has even done the odd 5 this week, hang in there! It feels like eternity when you’re sleep deprived but it will all be ok in a couple weeks xx she is also bf back to sleep and i too was scared to fall asleep when she was on the breast but i did it one night out of desperation for some sleep and honestly was great, now if i do fall asleep with her on the breast when she wakes up next feed she has actually turned her head and latched herself, it still wakes me but only briefly xx

Have you tried putting some milk on the dummy? Just a drop

Do you have movement under mattress alarm? If so try putting him on his tummy, it isn't best practice, but neither is being that exhausted, as you can fall asleep in a unsafe way.

White noise?

And remember This too shall pass. Sometimes that was the only thing that got me through.

@Avie29 thank you for the encouraging words! Xx

I've coslept since about week 2 since he will not sleep for longer than an hour without me touching him. I was initially worried about smothering him if we slept with him near my boob as I'm a 32F but it works completely fine. I've been told babies noses are actually shaped to make it near impossible. I can't actually fall asleep with him latched so I just wait till he's in a deeper sleep and take him off with my finger and shift away a little bit. Maybe that would work for you too? It means I dont actually have to properly wake up through the night just give him my nipple few a few mins with my eyes closed and unlatch when he's done. He also was up every 45 minutes at 4 months and I had to roll him to his other side (side sleeper) or he'd kick off which was a nightmare. It lasted a week or two. At six months he's still has the odd off night but rarely. He woke up only twice last night x