Drowsy but awake - how do you do it

[DLH1992]

Hoping for some answers or solidarity as I am so sleep deprived and at my wits end. So much so this is my first mumsnet post. DS (first baby) is 18 weeks and the 4 month sleep regression hit at 16 weeks. He now is only sleeping for 45 minutes at a time and is needing to be BF back to sleep each time. Everytime I'm about to fall asleep, he wakes and it is killing me. Before this he was sleeping for 3-5hrs at a time each night, just waking for a breastfeed and nappy change. He is combi fed and has a formula bottle at lunch time and at tea time but other than that is BF. I have always BF him to sleep and he has always only contact napped. He has reflux and is on gaviscon which has massively helped. DH is really trying to help, taking over at 3am so I can get 3 hours sleep in before he has to leave for work, splitting sleep shifts over the weekends etc but it's not sustainable as DH works away a lot and when he's away I'm on my own. We are desperately trying everything we can to get DS to go into his next2me 'drowsy but awake' but he just screams and is inconsolable until he's back on the boob. I've seen such conflicting information online. All the BF support groups say self soothing is developmental and will come with time, all the sleep coaches say it needs formal sleep training. I cannot bear for him to cry himself to sleep so CIO etc is not an option. He has slept the odd 2-3 hour stint since the regression hit so I know he can do it but its mostly every 45 minutes and then it's taking me at least half an hour to get him back down without him waking and the process starting again! Would love to hear peoples experience!

I'm on my 4th child and I do not believe this is a thing. Non of mine have ever been drowsy. I co sleep as I've taken the whole whatever gets us the most sleep. The older 3 all mostly sleep though unless nightmares, ect. 17 month old is still doing 2 wake ups but very short which nipple in and he's asleep very fast

Just a post of solidarity, my LO is nearly 5 months and we are deep in the regression with hourly wakings most nights. Lots of false starts as well. I am sleep deprived! We also BF, I feel so alone in supporting my LO through the night and have very little opportunities to nap in the day. I have no idea when this will end, I am just trusting that it will! I do dread nights to come when I’ve had a bad day or am exhausted so it’s really difficult.

There is so much out there about what you should or should not do, and everyone has an opinion. I really think you just have to consider what you want to do as a parent and what goes with your values. At times I’ve been anxious about the constant narratives about creating negative sleep associations of feeding to sleep (sleep training literature is EVERYWHERE) so I really have to ground myself in what I value as a parent. I also honestly do not have the energy to do anything but co sleep and BF!! But I also think why not? It’s the most natural thing ever.l and honestly at this stage, my aim is to survive this regression!

There is no research which indicates self settling is a skill that needs to be taught by us. Culturally we just seem obsessed with babies sleeping independently!!Again, you have to consider what your values are as a parent and how you will manage the regression - for some it will be sleep training, for others co sleeping, for others support in the day to help catch up on sleep. Do what ultimately helps you to ride this out!

But just to say I’m weeks deep into it too, we get some 2-3 hour sleeps but I don’t hope/ expect them because it makes it a lot harder :/

Sorry to hear you're deep in it too @MyOpenEagle it truly is horrendous. People kept telling me babies get easier after 3 months old but newborn was a breeze compared!! Ans he was a colicky/refluxy night.are so that is saying something. Hope you have a supportive partner who can help where possible as just knowing I can wake him if I need to massively helps my mental state. He is actually sleeping in the spare bedroom as I don't want us both to be awake all night unnecessarily. I'm not cut out for sleep training, I am definitely in the gentle parenting camp so I will be continuing to give him what he needs as he needs it and just pray to the sleep gods that he comes through it quickly and developmentally. He does manage to do the odd 2 hours stretch as well but like you say, never expect it! I am desperate enough to co sleep even though I never wanted to but I've tried it the last 2 nights and feeding him lying down plays havoc with his reflux so he just ends up sicking everywhere and doesn't go to sleep! Hope things improve for you soon 💐

This was his sleep pattern last night:
34 minutes
17m
2hr25 - asleep on me
7m
1hr53 - I managed to sleep
17m
1hr11 - I managed to sleep
24m
1hr20 - asleep on daddy (I slept)

There used to be a great blog How to survive a sleep thief which describes "put them down drowsy but awake" as the best way to piss off a tired baby and ensure you get no sleep at all! I think lots of common sleep advice just doesn't work for some babies.

On feeding to sleep, the Pantley pull off worked quite well - basically gently remove the nipple while still cuddling them, but allow them to relatch as often as they want to, then unlatch them after 30s or so. Because they stay relaxed and aren't denied latching, they eventually become sleepy enough to doze off while not latched so they can start to get used to that. After that we basically did very very gradual retreat over many months, from lying next to them to sitting next to the cot to sitting a bit further away to outside the room. We also did night weaning and complete weaning.

But even when we achieved the sleep holy grail of DS falling asleep while we were outside the room, he still woke up a few times a night for years - though that was still a big improvement on the nights of 45 minute stretches! Looking back now I wonder whether all the effort we put into trying various sorts of gentle sleep training actually made any difference or whether he'd have got it on the same timescale without us putting ourselves through the stress of trying and obsessing over it.

My recommendation would be to focus on doing what you need to get through this stage, drawing on all help to lighten your load and get respite. What made a big difference for us was splitting the nights so each of us consistently got an uninterrupted 4+ hour stretch of sleep while the other was in with the baby (I expressed milk so my partner could do the feeds during his shift). It's amazing how much difference just one stretch of solid sleep at a consistent time each night made to our energy levels! Good luck.

We also have a LO who has reflux (which seems to be on/off rather than constant) and was described as colicky, I wonder if they’re more like to wake up? I always wonder if my LO has belly discomfort that wakes her up.

Mine also does similar btw to your sleep! I stop tracking most nights because it’s too depressing. We get lots of false starts of 5-10 mins, then 1 hours like you do as well, 2 hours if I’m lucky!

Last night I got 3 hours but that was after about 5 false starts and two hours of trying to settle which I don’t feel is worth it 😣then she was just on/off up from 4am wanting boob. I was so tired I just side fed her and tried to doze…not a good sleep for me though. But again she’d come off and be moaning in discomfort again….how are your day naps?

I have two kids.

One could be put in her moses basket/crib/cot even a mattress on the floor awake and would doze off if it was the right time of day, she was fed and the lights were dimmed.

The other child only slept connected to me for months! Would waked up the second she was moved. We co-slept and I fed her on and off all night often whilst I was asleep. She had reflux in the early weeks and that was awful and I got barely any sleep. We started putting her in her cot once she was deeply asleep at 6 months old and then only co-sleeping after her first wake up. This got later and later and by 1 year she was sleep through the night in own room and going to bed drowsy but awake!

My little girl is 6 months and goes in her cot at bed time and cosleeps after the first wake up, i never coslept with my older 4 so i was worried she wouldn’t sleep in her own cot/bed as well as the others but this made me feel better lol thanks xx

Sounds identical to our LO! I know once he's awake from 4am, I have no chance of getting him back down, he'll only sleep on one of us from then. Day naps are all contact naps, pram or car. I've literally cancelled all baby groups and any plans to nail his nap routine because he was having wake windows that were far too long and was perpetually overtired. I'm using the huckleberry app which predicts his "sweet spot" for naps. It's been absolutely spot on time wise. When he rubs his eyes or shows first signs of tiredness, I check the app and its always within 5/10 mins of the sweet spot. Its helping prevent him from being overtired. Some naps he falls asleep on the boob happily whilst I'm on the sofa, some naps I have to take him upstairs into darkness with white noise (like night time). He cries for about 15 minutes until falling asleep in the car/pram. Aiming for 3.5hrs of naps at the minute over 3 or 4 naps per day. Again, he will only sleep 35-45 mins at a time unless held then he can quickly resettle for longer.

@UnaOfStormhold I wish my other half was motivated to help with night shifts…this notion of I have work 🙄

@DLH1992 4am is tough for us too and it’s when I’m most exhausted! Interesting about the app, I always thought ours was out because she never seems tired enough and never sleeps when it tells us she should! Maybe I could try sticking to that again to see!

I just thought I'd pop on in case any future sleep deprived parents come searching for experiences in the future. My LO has started sleeping 2,3 and 4hr stretches the last week or so. Last night we got 2hr40, 3hr30, 3hr50 which feels like heaven after the 45 minutes we were getting previously. 4am is still really hard so I have taken to either Co sleeping with him 4-7 or my DH takes him from 4 or 5am and let's him sleep on him (DH stays awake) but this has become less and less frequent now as Co sleeping seems to work and I've relaxed a little into it. LO is still nursed to sleep every night and every wake but I thought I'd just add what we've done as it hasn't involved sleep training but he is slowly sleeping for longer stretches. Very very strict nap routine in the day. Making sure his wake windows are no longer than they should be for his age. Consistent bed time routine: bath, massage, book, into his next2me. We try and keep him in it for at least 15 mins. We sing to him, stroke him, talk to him and try and keep him happy in it so he has positive association with his bed! Then he comes to me to be nursed and tends to sleep on me for the first hour or so before I transfer him back to the next2me. Bedtime changes as its based on wake window from last nap. I think these things are helping but ultimately I think it's just something he needs to go through. I know 2-3hr stretches isn't ideal long term and we haven't mastered "drowsy but awake" so we may revisit gentle sleep training when he's 6 months or older but for now it's enough sleep for me to function! And most importantly he is getting enough sleep finally!

Thanks for the update, but just another 2p would be, if drowsy but awake worked, chances are you'd have got there by yourself! If it's not working, then it's nothing you're doing wrong, your child just isn't a sleeper.
We spent months during lockdown blaming ourselves and wondering what we were doing wrong, and it was only when we had our second we realised that the whole delay but awake thing wasn't just some kind of sick joke .
We were always dismissed by health visitors that he's putting on weight and there's no concerns, but it turned out there is some neurodiversity at play.
We got him sleeping through the night or one wake up by 2 years old, and by 3 he was sleeping through most nights. I'll let you know when he sleeps through reliably in general though! Still wakes up in the night randomly probably 3 times a week at 5 years old.

@DLH1992 I know this is an older post but just wondering how things are going for you. Hope it's going well.Did you manage self settling at 6 months? Did your babge eve do drowsy bud awake. I have a 6 month old (who also has reflux) and we have a very similar set up to how you described. Thanks :)