So sick of arguing about bloody screens

[DeathToScreens]

Over the last several months, my son (age 9) has had several meltdown type episodes that involve lots of whining, demanding and lashing out at me because apparently "all of his friends" are allowed far more, or unlimited, screen time compared to him (who knows if this is even true). He is the most persistent child I've ever met and will not take no for an answer, about anything. He will go on about it for an hour or more. He thinks it's unfair and that he is left out. He claims I am too strict.

He's had a tablet since last Christmas. We lock it down/control it with the Google Family Link app. So certain apps are completely blocked (e.g. YouTube) and others have a time restriction (e.g. Roblox). We have it set so he can use the tablet for 2hrs each weekend day, plus 30min two afternoons a week. This is in addition to being able to watch TV on weekend mornings and watching YouTube for 5hrs straight after his grandparents pick him up from school once a week... (don't get me started on that...)

If he were allowed, he would spend ALL DAY (I kid you not) in front of the TV or tablet, and any exposure makes it SO HARD to get him out of the house or engaged in any other activity at all.

He has older and younger cousins who are allowed unlimited access to phones/tablets, and they are on them ALL THE TIME. One of them didn't leave the house all last summer because he was glued to a phone. He sees this and thinks it's the norm and unfair that he can't do the same.

When he has these meltdowns, sometimes I try just to listen and absorb his complaints, but more often than not it escalates and he ends up calling me names or telling me to shutup... then he loses access to the tablet/TV the next day. But it doesn't help at all. He's so caught up in thinking that everyone else is getting more access than him.

I'm so sick of going round in circles arguing about bloody screen time. At this point I just want to take a sledgehammer to every stupid screen. Am I being too harsh in my restrictions? Has anyone else been in this position?

I empathise. Mine are still young (4 and 2) and we heavily restrict screentime... TV only and it is rarely on... perhaps 1 hour in a 2 week period just now. Mine rarely ask for it... its just not a part of their lives. But... I am already nervous for the time when "all my friends are playing this or watching this" and I do recognise that shared experiences... movies, TV and games strengthen peer relationships but... I see the affects of too much screentime everyday. I have been a secondary school teacher for just over a decade and the change in teenagers during that time is... scary. I am praying that soon the known damage of excessive screentime will be shared widely and parents will stand together to give a consistent message to young people. Keep going... I recommend the book "glow kids"... could this be something you share with your son to help him understand that you are navigating this together. Have his friends over for no-screen afternoons after school? Act to find parents with similar values to your own? Good luck... definitely the worst part of 2020's parenting.

Dont argue with him. Your word is final, end of conversation.

I have a cousin I have not seen for more than 10 years, I kid you not. We walk past his bedroom door and his mum assures us he IS in there.....

Why don’t you experiment with it being ‘broken’ for a month or so and see what happens?

My kids are 8 and 10. We don’t own a tablet. They have a bit of tv and use a desktop computer for homework. No gaming or phones. They are completely free in a way I am not (because I own a smartphone and, like everyone, am mildly addicted to it). I want that freedom for them for as long as possible.

Thanks so much everyone.

Yes it was definitely easier before the 'peer pressure' influence.

Up until Christmas last year, he'd never had a tablet and we had not intended on getting him one. Then the begging started. I had originally told him that if he wanted one he could save up for it but that resulted in him being distraught, caught up in this bloody social comparison. He is convinced that all his friends have better lives than him because apparently they have been gifted tablets, multiple consoles etc. One "friend" in particular brags about it and this really gets to my son. I try to explain to him that often when people brag, they're not having a great time otherwise.

@KP1989 thanks for the book recommendation - I have heard of that one. I've read a couple books on the subject and this is why I try to be strict but yes it would be good to share something with my son. I can imagine how unsettling it is seeing the influence in a secondary school.

His cousins (who have unlimited access) recently told him that I was too strict and this really got to him... cue huge amounts of whining and anger. It's so frustrating that kids' sense of what is fair is influenced so heavily by peers. He must think I'm restricting his use just for FUN.

Several years ago the 'broken' ploy would have worked but I think he's too old to fall for that now unfortunately! 😥

I find with 8yo DS that it works much better to have a day where he knows no more screen time will be forthcoming. He gets his head round that much more easily than thinking he will get it in x hours and just wanting to watch the hours tick by.

So we have all the weekend gaming in the morning (it helps that he's a really early bird) so he can get 2-3 hours in and then that's it for the day. Means when we are out he's not waiting for it to be over right from the outset. And he's much more able to turn his mind to something else if we're home.

Also I've never managed to make the "homework first" rule work, it makes him rush his homework. It worked on me when I was little 🤪 just doesn't click for him though! So yeah for us it's gaming with time limits, then he is better able to turn his attention to homework without one eye on the clock.

I have also been FIERCELY rigid about politeness, eg if we have guests over and he's expecting the switch when they go, any pestering at all even a mere mention of the word Switch means he will not get any. We had to have a couple of massive meltdowns to get that lesson learned but so far (he is only 8) it's been well worth it.

@bagsofbats also like your energy of giving no fucks 😆

I'm with you and we restrict quite heavily here.

I also use absolute zero tolerance about arguing as I refused to spend time defending my decision.

Explain that the minute they start arguing / moaning (not when it gets bad, just as soon as they start) then that's 10/20/30 mins off the next block whatever you think will make an impact. Then follow through.

On the flip side I make a massive fuss when they come off nicely and on days when we've got nothing on, I reward extra time but link it massively to recent / general good screen behaviour.

We allowed gaming type screens from about 8 and were hardcore for a year or so and it was pretty awful but now DS is 11 and we've recently added Fortnite and he's been amazing. Really good at sticking to his time limits and no arguments.

On that, I also think what's working is that we respect games have a longer / unpredictable run time so we give notice of 'last game" and let him go over time.

Screens are also a struggle here. I can see how you’re 30 mins could cause issues. Twice a week us random and for a short amount of time. Could you do this everyday ?

Otherwise - it’s tough, I find it the toughest bit of parenting, but I think we have to stand firm. I think we are all learning how to parent with all these screens now. Tablets, phones and games are designed to be addictive and our kids need us to help them manage it.

Ugh I struggle with this and mine is not even 7 yet. It's so tough, I am quite relaxed about it as I find when I was really strict it just made him ask more and more. I know I could just take it away completely but honestly the only time she will sit still and relax is if she is playing a game on a screen, otherwise she just would never stop and gets overtired.

Mine watches screens more than she should be for sure but on weekends etc I always make sure to do activities Inbetween, getting out and about is easier because we never take the tablet with us and so she knows it's not an option. But as soon as we walk through the door within ten seconds she's asking to go on it again 🙄😑

But tbh if you look around, the amount of adults addicted to their phone, we can't really be suprised at kids. I am trying to cut my phone usage to model better behaviour as when I check my daily screen time sometimes I am shocked. If you go anywhere out and about adults are sat scrolling on their phones. Have you tried having a no screen afternoon or something including yourself? So all phones and tablets on the kitchen table

I think you might have it the wrong way round. Some kids are just more drawn / easily addicted to screens. The parents area forced to make stronger boundaries.

Oh yes, all the other kids are allowed unlimited screen time, according to my dc. We have settings on the phones, they go off as 19.30 and back on at 7.00. There's also limits to the amount of hours spent on YouTube, etc. We do, however, give extra time at times for dc 12. Dc 10 has my old phone, but there is no sim card/number. He plays games on it, but he's not having working phone until he's in year 6. They do like gaming on their pcs. But they do activities, such as scouts, swimming and rugby.

This totally depends on the child. There are parents who can honestly say ‘oh my child abandons the iPad and forgets about it and goes off to write their memoirs’ and kids who will fight you to the death if you try to remove their screen from there.

I have a 9 yr old son. He is not allowed youtube and it is blocked on his tablet as it had a detrimental affect on his behaviour and attitude (yes I know there is educational stuff on there but this nonsense about rich American families who constantly unbox stuff and have the latest toys made him think that is reality for other families).

he is allowed 2.5hrs of sceeen/tablet time each weekend day but only after lunch (sometimes they grab a bit of time before breakfast if we are slow getting up). He can play on his switch on the weekend too but this falls into the 2.5hrs. During the week they are not allowed their tablets apart from Wednesday afternoon because they don’t go to Afterschool club that day. We usually get home from Afterschool club about 5 and they have roughly 30 mins of TV before dinner. But with rushing about for extra curriculars sometimes nothing at all.

stand firm OP. Every time he argues with you I would stick to my guns and say ‘right you have lost 10 mins, if you argue with me again another 10 will go’ I don’t know about Google family but we use qustodio and you can set the screen time per day so it can be blocked completely on some days and 2hrs or whatever on other days.

You're doing a good job OP it's not easily in this day and age.

I am like you OP. I'm massively limited their screen use when they were young. I'm so glad I did. They are much more active and fit then most of their friends. They have a range of interests out side of gaming and are good in social situations where as lots of their friends and cousins are incapable of sitting through a meal without being on a phone.
DS1 was the worst. He also his autistic and has ADHD. During lockdown he became obsessed with screens and his behavior was terrible we ended up removing all screens from him for six weeks. It was the best decision we ever made as his behaviour improved hugely and sort off reset his relationship with the screens. Over the years we have repeated this fair shorter amounts of time.

Ignore the people that have children can self-regulate they are really few and far between and in reality the people that do this I kidding themselves and their kids are on much more than they think.

OK, I have no problems with limits but 30 minutes two evenings a week seems harsh to me. They'll just start getting in to a game and you turn it off. Personally if my child has done their homework, had some fresh air and exercise, spent time with the family - then I'm happy for them to relax with their screens.

I personally would link access to screens to attitude. I'd set clear time limits (which you have) but also expect that they are adhered to in a polite and positive manner. I'd explain that if not and if there was any whining or arguing of any kind even for one minute, that would lead to a ban of screens for X days. that would be non negotiable

I'd maybe consider increasing his allowed time but I'd also make sure he knows he will loose his screen time if he l
Plays up.
Mine would loose their screen time for the following day if they didn't immediately ( well slightly depends what they were playing) stop and if they continued they would loose it for a week.
I never had to ban it for a week but I think I was lucky as they were naturally complient kids.

Are you including the tv in screen time?

Mine did an hour a day of 'computer' then tv was whatever really.

One thing that worked well for us was playing online games or video games together . Playing something like Nintendos Mario party together was fun. They was a lot of playing together which seems better somehow.
Nintendo are good from that point of view.

If you do decide to increase the time then I'd sit down with him and have a meeting about it. You could even get him to sign an agreement? Sounds daft but it might help.

We did that when we first gave our eldest a laptop. It was sort of jokey but also serious. You've got to think how things will work out as he gets older

Each kid is very different though.

You are definitely doing the right thing and i would not give 2 hoots what his friends are allegedly doing. I parent what I believe in, not what others do. This is my hill to die on as they are really bad for kids.

So I have a DS who is 7 in August. He is allowed his iPad for 1 hour on a Saturday and 1 hour on a Sunday - this is done in the morning and he knows not to bother asking me for more, as the answer will be no, and if he wants to kick off about it, he looses it altogether for a week.

He is allowed a movie night Friday night and sat night.

Then through the week he gets 30 mins of tv before teas when he gets in.

We can't sit our kids in front of things that have billions of pounds spent on them to be addictive, then moan they are addicted to them.

I know his friends who bring the switch in the car in the school run in the morning - it baffles me, then they expect it to be in the car at pick up. The give it up their kids for an easy life, to get them in the car for school or to eat their breakfast - then moan they are addicted.

His fiends talk about minecraft, so I bought the Minecraft Annual so he knows all the characters, can see what the game looks like, but doesn't need to play it to join in the games they pkay at school based around it.
We have lots of messages from school sent out warning about Roblox and how unregulated it is and the dangers of it, if not supervised correctly, so I just tell him even if he had a computer to play it on that I don't think it's appropriate. He does have a console, we got it fir xmas for him, he's played it 3 times, I keep him busy and fun with other things

Stay string OP you are doing what's best for him.

When mine was that age and like yours totally unable to regulate - we' d have 2 and 3 week complete no screens (other than watching TV together) breaks when the whining about limits had ramped up to unbearable levels.

He was surprisingly all right with this. I always wondered if he found the break a relief too.

We kind of lost control of any limits during lockdown when he was 11. And he now has no limits (he's 14) - he spends hours watching you tube and gaming with friends but he will always drop in favour of seeing people in real life. And we are clear about things we do care about - sleep, homework, family dinner, seeing friends, fitness, making things - and as long as those things are fine we won't comment on screen time and we will take an interest in his gaming when he tries to share it with us. Eg the lore of Eldin Ring (it is very dull).

But I also agree with an earlier pp I'm not sure how useful other people's experiences are - your child is unique, your family is your family - to some extent you muddle through and flex to your circumstances. I'd just say keep your eyes on your actual goal which is to raise a happy, successful member of society not win the battle on screen time.

Also if he is kicking off at the time he gets now, you may as well reduce it, if he kicks off anyway.

Any rudeness here and a screen ban in totality comes into force for 2 weeks. DS is 12 and it is hard but your restrictions are sensible.

Mine (similar ages) have no screen time Mon through Thursday. 90 mins a day on Fri, Sat and Sun. Any more than that and their behaviour and energy levels deteriorate rapidly. And not by a little bit, it is really noticeable. As we have never allowed screen time during the week they don't know any different so don't push for it. They can also see how bad they start to feel with too much screen time. Last time my son went on play station, he ended up in tears of frustration. He had been in a great mood. So, what's working for us is, zero tolerance to extra screen time (so they don't even ask), making an effort to play board games, go out with them etc at weekend. I also relentlessly point out to them when the screens have caused bad moods, bickering etc. So they can start to understand that while they may want it, it doesn't necessarily make them feel very good. I can't speak for other households, I only know that screen time in my house makes for cranky, bickering lethargic children. No screens and they very very quickly find other things to do. Good luck.

I thought it may be useful to give some perspective from a parent of an older child and the impact of screen time. My son is now 25 and autistic. During his childhood and teenage years all he wanted to do was watch TV and play games and go on the computer (no tablets then). He had no interests or hobbies and very few friends to spend time with. I took him out and about as much as possible but restriction of screen time wasn't such a big thing then so although I did ensure he wasn't on screens all the time he did spend a huge amount of them which I now regret. Due to his autism he has failed at uni twice and spends his life in his bedroom on screens. This upsets me so much.... especially as I know that if I had been stricter things may be different now. It must be even harder these days with the availability of screens and peer pressure. I'm full of admiration for all of you for sticking to your guns... but you are absolutely right to do so. One of the issues that seems to come up a lot in your posts is the issue of the children wanting to come home from days out if they are aware that screen time starts at a certain time on the weekend and they fear they may be missing out and losing the time they have been told they are allowed. I can understand that. I realise I'm in no position to give advice given what I have told you about my son but I'm not in thick of it like others so can maybe see it more clearly. OP. I think your allowance for screen time usuage is a little too strict. I can see that 30 mins is almost worse than nothing as they just get into it and then have to stop. With hindsight I would have done the following. On weekdays after dinner and helping with clearing up I would allow 1 hour of screen time. If evenings out or visitors round and screen time is not possible I would tack the lost time onto the weekend allowance so they don't feel hard done by. At the weekend I would not give certain times..ie after 2pm but give a chunk of time. I would allow 3 hours screen time each Sat and Sun to be used whenever within reason and if family time meant this wasn't possible then they accrue the time that can be used another time. I would empower them to feel in control by creating a list of what screen time is owed so there is not the sense of it being unfair. I would have imposed a 10 minute penalty loss of screen time from their allowance if they moaned. I wish I could have seen the adult life my son has now and it would have also given me the 'no fucks' attitude from the earlier poster. However hard it seems you are all doing the right thing for your children and they will be better people for your efforts. Good luck all!

One thing I'm wondering about, because no-one has mentioned it yet, is how you talk to him about it. Have you explained why you are limiting screen time?

At 9 years old there's potential for a good discussion about why screen time can be problematic. You can introduce the concept of screen addiction, of isolation, of tbe consequences of reduced ability to concentrate, effects on developing brains. You could encourage your child to think about this for themselves and help them recognise their feelings when they're denied screens, or use screens for lots of hours.

I think we underestimate childrens ability to understand this stuff. I mean, you're always the adult and still have to enforce your rules, but you can help your child to want to self-regulate.