3 year old refusing to go to sleep

[GenericName123]

I’d really appreciate any advice with this as I’m at the end of my tether.

My 3 year old DD hates going to sleep. She’s always been low sleep needs (she dropped her nap at 18-20 months) and she finds sleeping boring. She wakes up at 7.15am (I usually wake her but sometimes she wakes earlier by herself). She has her bath at 7.30pm then a fairly typical bedtime routine (teeth, bath, PJs, story, lights out). I aim to get her to sleep by 8.30pm - I would prefer earlier but I’ve accepted she just doesn’t need a lot of sleep.

The problem comes once the light goes out. On a good day she tosses and turns and repeatedly asks for something to eat/ a wee/ a drink etc but does eventually go to sleep even if it’s later than I would like. On a bad night (like tonight) she kicks and thrashes, shouts and screams that she isn’t tired and repeatedly gets out of bed or sits up. This can go on for an hour or more. She regularly stays awake until 9pm or later, sometimes as late as 10pm. She can actually manage on that amount of sleep but I don’t think it’s good for her and it’s certainly not good for me either.

I have no idea how to handle it! We do all the usual things re wind down time before bed, keeping a routine, a dark room etc. She has busy days including lots of outdoor play but with some downtime time too. I think she’s just very active and would rather be reading or playing that sleeping.

When she’s thrashing about and getting out of bed etc I usually try to stay calm and just lift her back to lie down and say it’s time to go to sleep. But I can do this every 30-45 seconds for an hour. I do lose my temper sometimes and snap at her which I hate. When I have really had enough my DH takes over but I think that makes things worse as he tends to read with her to calm things down. She has never gone to sleep with anyone but me. I’m so tired of the whole situation. Everything else is great, she’s a gorgeous happy and active little girl, but this sleep situation is driving me mad.

I am literally explaining scientific research and you have said “what you are saying does not make any sense”. Ok. The audacity of that statement is wild.

Not that I should have to explain it further to you (as I am sure you have the ability to use Google), but I was referring to her ability to understand the impact on OP’s feelings (e.g. mummy will not have the energy to do X if she is tired because you are keeping her up). Children develop this ability at different times but always between 3.5 and 4. Nobody referred to a “switch” except you.

Separate studies also show that people who immediately discredit information with which they are presented, without actually understanding or looking into it first, are not necessarily the brightest. On that basis, I highly doubt your children are “physical wonders”, whatever that may be.

I was referring to your 'physically impossible' which was complete hyperbole. Maybe less likely when just turned 3, as you say there is no magic switch that happens at 4! That'd what doesn't make sense, your representation of the research, or your connection of it to what was suggested.

Might be useful for the op to read the research in a clearer context, but seems you're unwilling to actually share it!

If I was you I would get some advice from a child’s sleep specialist or GP/Nurse/Health visitor and get some advice about the amount of sleep she should be getting. That way if they say the amount of sleep she is getting is absolutely fine and healthy, then you can stop feeling stressed about it and let your daughter stay up in her room reading/audiobooks/playing on her own until she’s ready for sleep. Sometimes the stress & anxiety from the parent can be felt by the child and it can exacerbate the situation. Also have you tried a Grow Clock? They are amazing!

I wouldn't sit outside the room. I'd wake her earlier while you are up but don't make her aware you are doing. If she mentions she's tired just say to get oh that's a shame, Mummy gets tired if she doesn't sleep at night early enough.
I would do the super nanny thing. Make sure she's been the toilet /drink etc. Seller get then go downstairs tell her you need to do something that's boring to get like wash up..first time she gets up back to bed and explain you need to go to bed . Second time.. It's bed time! Third time say nothing at all. Subsequent times nothing. I did it with my son it took 4 times. No reaction isn't what they want.
You are doing everything right.
I wouldn't add more activities. I think if you get her up that bit earlier she will sleep.
Look forward to the teen age where you can't get them up and when they do they only grunt!!!

Just low light and she can play quietly in her room. Put herself to bed.

check on her before you go to bed. It will be novel for the first bit and she will stay up. But talk to her, ok you have to be in bed sleeping before mom goes to bed, is that reasonable? What should we have as consequences if you aren’t? Then hold her to it.

i think they call it Montessori or something.

If she’s functioning it’s not worth the fight. Plus then she’s not getting the extra attention and time, that might be a driver.

We introduced a reward chart. Got one off Amazon with some little stickers. When she fills up the chart she gets a prize at the end. Pick something (or she can) that she absolutely loves the most. For my little girl that is a pair of of glittery heels from amazon 🤣 it should be enough for her to get into that routine of just going to bed when expected, once they get their prize they often forget about the chart and are already in that mind frame of “it’s bedtime”

I’d do the super nanny of taking her back once saying it’s nighttime, 2nd it’s time to sleep. From 3rd time say nothing. Make it boring - she needs her rest and so do you

I wanted to come back and update as we’ve had some success and seem to have turned a corner (fingers crossed!!)

After trying a few of the things suggested here including using audiobooks we had got to a stage where DD wasn’t actively getting out of bed and fighting me but she was still staying awake much later than I would like and her mind was still very active at night. But then we tried a book called Ellen the Elephant Wants to go to Sleep. It’s basically a guided meditation that takes the listener through lots of relaxing steps as you go with Ellen through a magical sleepy forest. It’s really helped! DD now goes to sleep fairly easily after her bath, PJs, one normal story and then the elephant one (which takes 15-20 mins) she dozes off usually by 8.30pm - she’s up by 7.15am so that’s 10.45 hours of sleep and I get chance to watch a bit of tv, catch up on things etc. It’s so much better!

Just to add I don’t know if it would work for every child, but it suits my DD. She loves stories, has a vivid imagination and a good concentration span so it’s working with her personality rather than against it. I’ve also accepted she’s on the low end of sleep needs and prefers a later night and a bit of a lie in compared to other kids but we can live with that now bedtimes are a bit more chilled!

That's brilliant

Have you been practicing good sleep hygiene?

So for example no screens 2 hours before bed

Also, have you tried rough housing before bed too? This can be perceived as riling then up but it's actually very good for winding down