I want another baby - he doesn't!

[Tlb]

Our daughter is just over 20 months. She is a lovely child - going through the usual tantrums and teething problems like everyone else - I didn't know i could function on so little sleep!!

I have wanted to have another baby now for about 6 months - my husband just looks at me in horror but won't tell me WHY he is so against it - he just says he doesn't want one end of conversation.

Who is right here? I have had girlfriends say to me - do it be accident - are you kidding he knows which are my 'green days' and which aren't (I use the persona) besides that would be terribly unfair - but what am I supposed to do. I have tried raising the subject delicately or at 'the right time' but there isn't one and it ususally ends in one of us sulking or something!

My reason for wanting one soon are that I don't want a huge age gap 3 years preferably at the most if I leave it any longer I probably won't be able to face the whole pregnancy and birth thing again!! Our daughter is incredibly sociable and I feel we would be a more complete family with two - I was an only child up until age 8 and to all intents and purposes still was! part of it is selfish - I would like to go on holiday knowing that my children can play together and not always have to rely on mum/dad/creche/on holiday with other families syndrome all the time. Not that I mind but every single holiday?

I also had a very good pregnancy and birth and for the first time in my life I feel as if I can do something right and enjoy it - I love motherhood no matter how exhausting it can be.

But then there is this other little voice saying for the sake of peace maybe stick at one. Maybe I wouldn't be able to love two, or maybe if we did go ahead the second one would be resented or I would feel under a huge amount of pressure to keep any problems to myself...

Anyone out there able to offer any advice or help?

[Bells]

Tlb, I am certainly no expert but it seems to me that the first step is getting your husband to sit down and explain exactly why he doesn't want another child. Equally, you need to make your feelings on the subject very clear to him. Can you make a time to go out to dinner and discuss the issue on neutral territory with no interruptions?. I personally would be very wary of conceiving by "accident" - that could well cause as much resentment on his part as his depriving you of a second child could potentially cause you. I don't know how old you are but could you not wait another year or so before planning another? Maybe your husband will feel more ready then.

[Tlb]

Thanks Bells

I am 34 in August so I suppose I could wait but by next year I just feel that the age gap is becoming too great to have any chance of sibling play mates (not that any 'correct' age gap is guaranteed!) and I just feel sooner rather than later as the longer I leave it the less likely he will want another one as another sleepless night passes!

[Hmonty]

Tlb,
You might have read my posting on the miscarriage discussion. I'm having a similar problem with my hubbie. Having had a miscarriage I'd now like to try for another one...but he's trying to put me off or stop as we are (we already have two beautiful boys). I have an feeling that he may be scared of going through the whole miscarriage thing agin. It was pretty traumatic. Could this be the same with your man?

I'm going to get to the bottom of this as I will be getting my way on this one. I'm sure once we sit down and chat and I put my feelings across for wanting another and now, he'll come round. I've just got to be subtle so he thinks it was all his idea. Worse comes to the worse I'll leave it as his responsibility to reach for the condoms and then make sure they're just out of reach.

[Tom]

Tlb - I completely agree with Bells - DO NOT 'trick' him into becoming a father again - this is potentially very destructive. You do need to figure out how to get him talking. One way to do this is to think back to the times when he has really opened up to you about things before - what was the setting, what was the atmosphere between you two, how were you treating him... what elements of those scenarios are you able to re-create? If you can begin to get an understanding of where he's coming from, you could start to work on solutions that meet both your needs.

[Tlb]

Tom

I have read a number of your entries on this board and you sound like a wonderful open minded type of guy...I bought my husband the 60 minute father recently after reading the other board - that is now in pieces in the bin he was v insulted... I know what Bells, Hmonty and yourself are saying and I think he even realises its 'inevitable' but at the moment everytime our daughter throws a tantrum (approx once every 60 seconds) he just says and YOU want another one!

I think to a certain extent I can surmise a lot of the reasons behind his reluctance. We run a business together, we live a small terrace house in London and we want to move out, money worries are always lurking around especially when we are self employed (mind you when aren't they lurking !) And our daughter is driving him mad (it doesn't help that she 'hates' him at the moment!)

If I have had a bad 'mummy' day or just lost my patience or am in a bad mood he always says that we shouldn't have any more so I have turned this around that when she is good and we have a lovely day together I say wouldn't it be nice to have another?! Doesn't seem to have the same effect...

Basically he is very difficult to sit down and talk to, he always has to be right and everything is a 'point' scoring issue so I am having a tough time at the mo.

[Eulalia]

Tlb - did your husband say he only wanted one child beforehand? If he didn't then it is not fair on him to be so restrictive.

I think the best way is to focus on your daughter and point out the positive aspects of her having a sibling. I'd guess the fact that you are going through a difficult phase with her just now is bound to be affecting his decision. Sounds like I am stating the obvious I know but why not cool off for a few months. It could make all the difference. If you want a three year gap then you've still got about 5 months to play with. When she is about 2 then she could be much easier to deal with.

One point to emphasise is that an only child can tend to be more self-centered and therefore if you have any behavioural problems they could be emphasised or exacerbated because she is getting more attention. Therefore another child will tend to dillute things. Also she could be picking up the bad feelings between you at the moment which isn't going to help.

What experiences has he had as a child himself?

I know it is difficult these days with the pressures of money/work and just modern living but I think you can get by if you want to. Do you have any friends who could act as role models that you could visit so he can see a positive aspect to family life?

[Rmea]

Tlb - you must both talk about this in a more detached way. View it as a much more boring decision and come up with advantages and drawbacks, which I'm sure you will both have if you're honest. You also need to weigh up between you who feels more strongly, which is really hard to do without getting heated. How distressed will you be without a second? How distressed would he be with one? Your partner needs to understand how much this means to you and then consider how much you mean to him. Likewise you need to do the same for him.
I went through this myself last year after a miscarriage and we finally decided not to decide yet. I think it is one of the most distressing situations to be in, especially as men probably don't really know the desperate NEED we can feel for a baby. I wish you all the luck you need to get through this.

[Tlb]

Thank you for your very sound advice

Sometimes when you are too close you can't think straight. I am gradually chipping away - so fingers crossed.

[Hmonty]

Tlb,
I was wondering how you were getting on. Any luck on pursuading hubbie to go for number 2 yet?

[Lil]

Hmonty, I remember reading your messages about trying to persuade hubby for no.2 - so now you're preggers I guess you must have managed to afterall!! how did you do it? is he as pleased as you about babe no. 2?(congrats again).

[Hmonty]

I think I just wore him down! One thing that did help was that we were filing all out home videos and the films of the kids as very young babies made him really broody again...I guess the same would work with photos as well.....I was hoping Tbl had tried this theory....

Actually when I told Hubbie I was pregnant his words were...'Great, let's go for four'. Might take a raincheck on that one! I think this means he is pleased though. He did admit that he wasn't actually too sure last time and although he made all the right noises I did guess that this was the case. The previous enthusiasm just wasn't there. A case of bad timing I think. It was dark and wintery and we had just moved to a large house that needed a great deal of work (including central heating) and I think he though another baby would just be too much. Much improved reaction this time. Perhaps because the house is (slowly) coming together and is much nicer in the summer anyway and both our boys are particularly cute at the moment (biased Mum).....

Now there's a thought. How did you all tell your other halves that you were pregnant? I always planned to do something silly like buying a 'best Dad' mug or similar but then I've never been able to keep it a secret and always blurt it out at the first opportunity. First time round hubbie was on a work call and I interupted to ask if he could see a blue line. when he said 'yes, what does that mean' I told him and he had to hang up and phone the custoemr back later! Opps! Not as planned at all!

[Eulalia]

Hmonty - congratulations! - when is the baby due? I told my husband by giving him a present. He thought it was for doing up our bathroom. He opened it to find a tiny pair of baby socks. He soon got the message!

[Hmonty]

Arrr that's sweet. Just the sort of thing I wanted to do - but could wait to do!

Baby should be due 7th April ish....but at the moment I'm just looking forward to the 12 week scan. Once that's out of the way and I know the baby is healthy I'll relax and start planning the rest of the pregnancy - And will start telling non mumsnetters!

[Joe]

Thats a lovely way to tell him. I cant imgine I will be able to do anything like that as I cant see my husband letting me do a test without him.

[Azzie]

Our first baby was a complete accident and, as far as I was concerned at the time, a complete disaster (I'd just been offered two new jobs, both of which would have meant moving etc). I hadn't told my husband my suspicions, and did the test on my own, then had to wait for him to come home from work to tell him. When I told him, his first words (knowing how I must feel about it) were "Oh dear" - but he couldn't control the huge grin that spread across his face! I shall remember it forever, along with the only time I've ever seen him cry, which was holding his baby son for the first time in the delivery room.

[Blob]

Sorry to be secretive but I've changed my chatname for this one as I'm feeling a bit sensitive about it all. Can anyone give me updates on this - on what happened to you? (You all seem to have succeeded in the end!)
Here's me: I have two children; I've been increasingly desperate to have a third for the last year - can NOT get DH to agree to it. He is utterly negative about the whole thing, which I find is casting a shadow on our family life as a whole, however much he says he loves our children. He seems to focus so much on the problems - and don't we all know them since we post here! - but I think the joys outweigh any problems. I feel my choices are just blocked - he after all, can get his way without my agreement, while I can't have mine without his. But it's not a situation in which you can compromise so what do you do? I've considered 'accidents', I've even considered the milkman ... but can anyone tell me, have you ever been in this situation? If you can't get dh to agree, how do you live with it?
I love my two kids to pieces, and I'm grateful to have them, but how do I cope feeling for the rest of my life that there's a gap at the end of the line? People always say you regret the things you didn't do, rather than the things you did, which in my experience is true. I don't want to live with this regret. I feel at a standstill: I have things I want to do in that vague time of 'eventually, when the kids are at school', when I have time to restart a career etc. but I can't think of doing any of them while wishing I was doing something else instead - ie. having no. 3. DH wants to get rid of the baby kit, I want to cry at the sight of newborn babies in the street. It's desperate. Can anyone offer any help?

[LiamsMum]

Hi Blob
Sorry you're going through a hard time.. it sounds like there is no clear answer at this point. My friend was in exactly the same position as you, she had two little girls and she started to want a third child - she really hoped for a boy to complete their family. Her husband was adamant that he did not want another one, and the pressure on both of them just grew. The more she kept wanting another baby, the more distant he grew from her. He kept telling her that he couldn't stand the thought of having another child and that she should forget about the idea. He even threatened to have a vasectomy. Anyway, the end result is that they are now divorced - he left her and has now re-married someone else. She has often said to me "I wish I hadn't pushed him for that third baby." I'm not saying he's right and you're wrong, I think it's very sad that you feel so strongly about it and it's obviously upsetting you. I'm just saying you may have to decide whether it is worth risking problems between you and your husband to have another child. I really hope he comes round for your sake - maybe you could have a really good talk with him if you find the opportunity, and see if there's any way of working it out. Good luck.

[Lindy]

I would like to put the other point of view, we have one son, 11 months & my husband would LOVE another child - I absolutely do not.

What did you discuss before starting your family -I was always very clear that I did NOT want any children & I spelt this out to my husband before we were married & he accepted this. After 12 years, & in our early 40s, we changed our minds, for a number of reasons I won't bore you with (husband much keener, I admit I 'allowed' myself to be persuaded) - yes, of course now I really love my son & my new lifestyle & am lucky to be a SAHM by choice - but I am adamant I do not want any more. I do feel sometimes my husband is putting a little pressure on me to have another, although my age is a good barrier - I do think to try & 'force' one partner to have another when he/she really doens'nt want to cannot really be a good solution.

Sorry, this isn't much of a helpful answer - just my observations.

PS My DH is now saying 'another baby or a puppy'!!

[lulu40]

Blob I know exactly how you feel I have a lovely son now aged 4 and from the age of 2 desperaretly wanted another but because my dp already had a daughter from another relationship he said no. I went through a horrible period of depression where babies/baby clothes would just destroy me and he never really understood and then out of the blue last year he decides he's changed his mind - well guess what so had I. I am approaching 40 at the speed of light and had well adjusted myself to the idea of an only child. But after some soul searching and a thread on mumsnet I decided to go for it, not even nearly pregnant yet and have said to dp if it doesnt happen this year we should forget it as the age gap I think is already on the big side plus I will be forty this year. What I'm really trying to say is you will learn to accept what you have and you do have two lovely children - I just kept telling myself to be grateful for what I had - I had two miscarriages prior to my son's birth so am grateful just for him. I know how difficult it is to want another child so bad but you really do need to consider the rest of your family and their feelings - accidents I think are a big mistake as people kept telling me cant you just have an accident, would you like it if the shoe was on the other foot and your dp made a whole in the condom just to get what he wanted - I hope I dont offend anyone by what I am saying.

[Blob]

I should probably clarify - when I say 'I've considered accidents', I do mean that on the same level as having considered the milkman ... ie. I wouldn't do either (couldn't, anyway, we buy our milk in the supermarket!) though I've heard the suggestion made.
Thanks, anyway, for the words of advice.

[ChanelNo5]

Blob - I'm really sorry to hear how unhappy you are at your situation, it's awful when you both want different things and can't seem to find a compromise. I have got 3 kids, dh really only wanted 2, but eventually he agreed that we could have one more, but definitely that would be it. I did think about a 4th a little while ago, but dh wouldn't even entertain the idea, and when I looked at things rationally rather than hormonally, I could see that he was right. My sister has 2 kids and would have liked a 3rd, but her dh was adamant that he did not want anymore. They did have lots of rows about it, but I think that now my sis is quite happy that they stuck at 2 (they've got more money than us, they fit into cars better than us, it's easier for them to book holidays as so much is geared up for families of 4). Also, both her 2 are at school now, whereas mine won't all be at school for a few more years.

I think you really need to sit down and discuss things with your dh. If you present your arguments rationally and show that you have carefully thought things through, rather than rash ideas, he may atleast think things over and possibly come round to your way of thinking. Perhaps also, if you allow yourself a little more time, you may decide that really you are happy with 2. I really really thought that I wanted a 4th, but now I'm really glad that I didn't go through with it, I've started putting my energies into losing weight (and really wouldn't want to wreck all my good work by being pg again), doing more things with, being a better mother to the kiddies I've got, and looking forward to all the things that we can do now that the children are getting older.

Good Luck to you Blob. Hope you soon reach a decision that both you and dh are happy with. Keep us posted. Love Chanel.

[Rhiannon]

Blob, do you want another child or do you want a baby? Are you feeling that the others don't need you anymore? Are the children the same sex and you want the other sex? R

[Blob]

All good questions, Rhiannon. The children are one of each so that's not an issue. I do love babies, though, and I suppose the fact that my eldest started school this year does make me feel that I've 'lost' him a bit. However, that's also a good practical reason for timing a third, so I don't think it's all heart. As for talking, we've talked and talked for a year now - or rather I have started the discussions but dh has at least talked back - and we don't reach a resolution. I imagined that, even though he was reluctant, things might eventually go along the lines that you describe, Chanel - that he might say, well, if you really really want it but no more after that ... instead it's a brick wall. We've always reached shared opinions before now, though he usually needs me to suggest things first, which he then considers slowly.
Chanel, thanks for your positive thoughts. (Your postings are always positive, I notice!) It means a lot to me to talk it over here as all my friends without exception are glad to be 'over the baby stage' as they cheerily say. Any hint of broodiness and they look at me as though I'm mad, so I can't talk to anyone about it in my 'real' life!

[jasper]

Hi Blob.Are we to read anything into your choice of chatname?? Feeling a tad low on the old self esteem?!
Assuming you are in the UK, are you a fellow insomniac?
I have been thinking about your original question a lot and although I can't come up with any solutions I thought I'd post my rambling thoughts.
I had never particularly wanted children and had none from my 7 year marriage which sadly ended in divorce.
I got together with my current partner ( that makes him sound like I am thinking of trading him in ) about 5 years ago and was surprised that the idea of children was suddenly appealing. He felt the same and our son was born nearly 3 years ago, followed by our daughter 20 months later.
Now you have not mentioned anything about the general state of your marriage but I confess ours is somewhat stormy.I have said it before, we have many problems, but our two kids are not among them. They are the absolute joy of my/our life.
I am getting to the point now, honest.

Very soon afer my dd was born, I had the overwhelming desire for a third child so I really do know how you feel.
This desire for a third was far stronger than the desire the first two times when I had a much more " well we'll see what happens " approach. ( the story ends happily so far in that he was fine about going for number three and I got pregnant quickly and baby is due in early March)
But if he had been against the idea, the desire in me was so strong I think it would have seriously threatened our relationship, and while I would not have tricked him into fatherhood, I could see the relationship might have faltered and the milkman might have been a distinct possibility!
It is difficult for me to admit this because it makes me sound a bit of a ninny, but I don't think you can underestimate the desire to have a child. After all it is really what we are all here for.
The bottom line I think I am trying to say is that for me having another child may have become more important than my relationship, had he not been for it too.(not that there would have been anyone else to have the child with - it would have been a no win situation)
Maybe you do not feel this way, and this may say more about my relationship than anything else.
If your marriage is a loving and strong one you will get through this either way (ie one of you will have to give in) but if it is you who has to concede,and your marriage has other cracks, be very aware that the resentment this might cause could be enormous/destructive.
I have a friend in a possibly worse situation. Her partner is 57, she is 35. They have been together eight years. He has two grown up kids from a previous marriage and is adamant he wants no kids. She was fine about this till about a year ago when the mothering bells started to ring. He will absolutely not give in, says she must choose between him and kids, and for now she has chosen him. I really fear for her future, I am convinced she will regret it horribly.
What are his specific misgivings? Will he discuss it calmly or does he get angry if you keep bringing it up?