Is private school really worth it?

[milliec]

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No the percentage is still around 7%.

The wealth advantage is driven by earning power. It is of course true that wealthier does not mean better but it does give one more choices.

I haven't chosen my children's school on the basis of their wealth in later life either actually. I want them to benefit from an environment that is all about learning. Again around 40% of Oxbridge and 30% of Russell group universities have privately educated children.

What my DCs choose to do with their educational advantages is up to them. They can become trapeze artists if they want. I just want them to have choices and to exercise those choices in the way that is conducive to their future happiness.

So how about we nationalise all schools. Assign the teachers in a particular area to any school on a random basis and everyone goes to the nearest school, which has the same budget as every other school.

Problem solved.

Oh and religion can be sorted out at home so we don't need to segregate on any grounds.

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I don't think we pay because we want them to go to Oxbridge universities - we didn't after all.

I'm not sure it is worth it in terms of seeing results - so I pay this much then I expect to be on this reading level. That's a rather corrupt way to view education.

If you take it that there are good and bad and average schools all over, and then say right here's a private one, it seems good (or even average) and I like it as an environment and we can afford it, let's go here - then really the best you can hope for is that you are not wasting your money.

And that's about as much as you can hope for I think.

One of the problems with these private schools threads is people discuss them as if the dilemma existed only in an abstract way. If you are wealthy and went to private schools and all your friends did and all your children's friends do, that's very different to scraping and saving to afford it. The question "is it worth it?" will have a different answer depending on who you ask.

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education is just another money making business now. it sucks

In answer to the OP, it depends on the school.

For example, I looked at a local private prep school when we were looking at pre-schools for DS, and I thought the local primary was better. Your local schools may be different.

good posts oops. Sounds like you and DH have the capacity to make choices and live your lives in a fulfilling way.... which is what its all about i think....

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oops, I'm sorry, but it's naive to think it's easy or sensible to go to university when you're older. Now that university involves hefty tuition fees it's always going to have an impact financially even if you are going to study part time.

The students most likely to drop out of university are mature students and those struggling financially.

I'm glad you're happy with your choices but it's wrong to tell people that you can be happy without money.

Of course it's relatively easy to be happy without money when you're young and healthy. It's a hell of a lot harder when you're older and have commitments.

And being without money when you're older has an impact on the rest of the family too for whom you are responsible. So your spouse may have to fund you through university, you may not be able to save up for your kids' university fees and you would certainly struggle to save for your pension.

I've said on other threads that people are not educated to take a long-term view of financial planning and I've seen too many people (esp. women) skrimping on food and heating because they have only the state pension to live on not to.

Obviously some people are not in a position to save etc and obviously life choices should not be dictated by money alone and certainly not earning power but certainly money should be a consideration unless you want to have your choices (and almost certainly your happiness) and probably those close to you also severely limited in later life.

milliec - I haven't read the whole thread. In answer to your OP: whether a school is private or state (or some other sort of school - they do exist in the world) is entirely irrelevant IMO when weighing up the multiple criteria with which one judges whether a school is suitable for one's child, unless one of your criteria is that it is desirable to be seen by others to spend a lot of money on school fees.

Private schools in England have on average (this is a generalisation) more comfortable and extensive facilities, lower teacher-pupil ratios and better examination results than state schools, among other criteria you may value. State schools are on average more socially inclusive, state primaries are often a social hub in their communities (particularly village/rural schools) and often close to home - which are also valuable criteria. But everyone's criteria for evaluating a school are different and I think you need to think hard about what your personal criteria for your particular child are - not just whether the school is "state" or "private"

Our local private school has classes of 22 so not significantly less than state school. My friend works there and says she wouldn't send her kids there if it was free. They are VERY attainment driven with little emphasis on personal and social development. They love those kids who fit the mould and those who don't they're not interested in.

Then there are the parents, from what I've heard it must be awful tryign to keep up with it all especially if you're not 'rich'. They're competitive and pushy - obviously not all but that's the consensus.

I'd either move house, apply for schools further afield, play the hypocrite and get her christened just to get a place, look again at the non-church schools on ofsted, look around (not on an open day) are they really that bad??

I don't think it is usually a choice to go to uni later fc. Sometimes life isn't as easy and free flowing when we are young, esp if you attend a mediocre secondary school where they don't encourage the students to go on to a degree, or if you have housing/family problems or simply a basic lack of confidence.
You grow older, educate yourself and realise a degree is the way forward in your chosen field and apply yourself to it.
Yes, it is harder than doing it when you're young but with determination and appreciation it can be done

It is impossible to answer the OP,as so many people have said, it depends on your DC and the schools in question. The only way is to visit the schools. I prefer state because I think a wide social mix is a better preparation for life but I would have gone private if the state schools were not meeting my DCs needs (if I could have afforded it).

Agree Poppychick- My dd goes to a fine school, with a mixture of backgrounds and abilities.
She has a nice group of friends and is coming on leaps and bounds academically.
I wouldn't consider private school, esp after reading some of the posters on MN and their attitudes to people who aren't like them!

You see in the end OP you have to accept that you aren't buying anything tangible, and if you think you are, then you are probably wrong.

You are not buying a brighter child or one who will be made cleverer, you're not buying perfection or easy entry to Oxford. Your child may want to drop out of school at sixteen - will you then feel it was worth it?

It is hard to weigh up financial outlay with end outcome when it comes to a child.

If anything you are buying a choice to go to the school you like the most - and in the end that choice might not be worth it. So it depends - as others have said -what goes into that choice. You may want smaller classrooms, big sports fields a mix of people not dictated by geographical area. But then again you might not. . . . Or you might want a local community school.

Interesting POV ahundredtimes, but I disagree. I think that there are very many tangible things that can be purchased at private school, in particular the opportunity to try things that aren't on offer at state schools (I'm thinking about non-mainstream sports, languages, creative/artistic subjects).

What you cannot buy, surely, is the guarantee that your child will wish/be able to use those extra opportunities to the full.

Yes, but it was the question of whether it was 'worth' it that was worrying me. I think you have to shoulder the responsibility that perhaps it isn't 'worth' it if you're going to do it. How mixed up is that?!

We pay. I think I pay for the fact they do a huge amount outside the classroom, do philosophy [ponce], play sport - though god knows why when they're not very sporty, that I like the teaching style, they don't do SATS, that the children are involved in their learning, that it is an unpretentious unponcy school - that as an environment it opens doors in their minds, and still covers the basics well. I don't much care about league tables and end results.

Now that is worth it for ME, but I don't doubt that they'd do just as well at a state school - except for ds2 perhaps, who has SEN and definitely benefits from smaller classrooms and lots of attention.

But I don't pay for any kind of tangible reward - I accept that it is almost certainly not a waste of money.

Does that make sense?

I think it also depends on where you are.

I will admit to banging on about how there was nothing wrong with state schools when I lived in rural Devon with about thirty million excellent ones on my doorstep but I then had to re consider when we moved to Bristol and the local state schools were so dire (this is a well known problem in Bristol) that had we stayed there we would have paid.

Principles, schminciples.

So that's my answer, sometimes it's worth it if the alternative is a dire school.

If your choice is good state vs private then I'd say go and look at them and see what you think but in your position I'd apply for both and see what happens.

I think we actually mean the same thing, 100x, but are using different words to express it

We pay for school for our daughter, but this is France and school fees are very low compared with England (so the socially divisive aspects of fee-paying versus state school aren't as great).

The one, very specific, opportunity we wanted to offer our daughter was to learn to be fully operational in French and English. She is learning to understand and speak both languages at home but we would like her to be able to read and write both languages equally fluently, so we pay for a bilingual school in order to give her that opportunity (which to my mind is a pretty tangible opportunity).

Obviously there are no guarantees that she will end up completely operational in both languages, but I will be at least able to think that I put every available opportunity in her way.

I went to private schools both boarding and day. I hated sport and although considered bright scrapped through my exams. At my school if you weren't Oxbridge standard or sporty they weren't really interested. I wonder if it was worth the money.

I just want to echo the comments that it depends on the child and the school and there is an awful lot you can do for your child with the equivalent of school fees. Things that you can really target at their individual interests.

"there is an awful lot you can do for your child with the equivalent of school fees"

booge - you are absolutely right about this. The opportunities that private schools offer may be completely irrelevant to some children. Better spend the money on activities that are relevant to your particular child.

Anna that's a good point - particularly as in your earlier post, you say that the advantages of private are that it provides the opportunity to try a broad variety of things - sports, music, arts etc. IME in private schools, ALL the extra curriuclar things are billed separately - they are not part of the package, and tbh, that's most of the things you mentioned above, apart from maybe team sports. So you may be better off using the state system and buying into these types of things. In my tutor group (Year 9 state) I have kids who do all sorts of things - they belong to local rugby and football teams, they learn instruments, a few do drama through 'Stagecoach' etc. So I would certainly be wary of parting with school fees and the extras on top if it's the extras you're really after.

alfiesbabe - where I do think that private schools often have an advantage over state is that lots of activities/opportunities happen "under one roof" ie the logistics of getting to and from extra-curricular activities are less of a burden on parents.

Here in France, where state and private schools alike offer very few extra curricular activities, the burden on parents of chauffeuring their children around to activities is very onerous indeed, and certainly does limit children's options to some extent.