5yo DD violent outbursts

[Zapx]

Hi everyone, really keen for advice.

Me 5yo DD is increasingly having violent outbursts and I’m really not sure what to do. They are mostly directed at my 3yo DS but also at me/DH.
Examples include- pushing DS off a settee, hitting DS in the car and refusing to stop such that I had to stop the car, trying to bite me when I was holding her hands to stop her from hitting DS, trying to pull DS under the water when out swimming etc etc.

Things I’ve tried: taking toys away (she truly doesn’t care), sitting her on the stairs until she can stop doing whatever it is (she will happily sit there for ages saying that she hates everyone and trying to hit anyone who walks past), cuddles and asking her why she’s done it (she just says she doesn’t like him).

She can be loving, delightful, and an absolute joy, and they can play really really happily together, but I feel I’m really failing her atm by failing to get this behaviour under control.

Thanks so much for any advice.

My 5 year old is like this too at the minute. I vaguely remember his older brother being similar at that age.
It’s not fun but be consistent and hopefully it will pass quickly.

@PippetyPoppetyPie thank you! It’s really hard isn’t it 😞

put her in her room and leave her there every time

She’s struggling to manage her emotions at 5. That’s not going to stop just by sitting her on the stairs or shutting her in another room. At the time she is behaving in that way, it’s impossible to reason with her too.
She’s likely jealous of her younger sibling, and doesn’t understand this feeling. Clearly there needs to be an understanding about what behaviours are not acceptable - hurting another person purposefully being one of them.
The best time to talk about these feelings is when she’s calm, not when she’s done something wrong. Also, if you can preempt the behaviour and try to nip it in the bud through distraction techniques that could help.

This is dreadful advice.

it is called parenting

There are plenty of other ways to appropriately manage behaviour and maintain boundaries that don't involve shutting a distressed child in their room.

My DC went through this phase as well at the same age. When DC2 started being super interested in everything DC1 was doing, following him everywhere, and DC1 didnt want to share toys, time, the same air (!) or me with DC2. DC2 knew exactly what buttons to press as well! DC1 had a separate hobby with DH, time out in the bedroom/no tech, separate bedtimes, and 1:1 with me did help with taking the edge off the competitive attention seeking behaviour - but we needed the patience of Job for nearly 2 years. Now they're older they're best buddies!

hence we end up with whole schools full of children with no idea how to behave....

"distressed" child is behaving appallingly, and needs appropriate consequences, immediately.

Shutting children in a room when they misbehave is lazy parenting that doesn't actually address any of the root causes.

It's not a choice between shutting a child up in a room and ignoring the behaviour.

rubbish - not lazy in the slightest, disciplining a child is responsible parenting, and failing to do so is neglect.

And did you, at any point, see me say the child shouldn't be disciplined?

how would you do it then?

My DD was very similar, no obvious triggers but she'd suddenly lose it and start kicking, hitting and screaming. Sometimes putting her in her room was the only answer. She hated me leaving her yet also didn't want me near her so I either sat with her til she calmed down if she'd let me, or sat outside her door so I was close enough but wasn't being kicked or punched. I'd be calm and say I won't allow her to hurt me or anyone else. Leaving her where she was didn't help anyone.

We tried all the calming methods I read about but it did nothing and afterwards she'd say she couldn't control it and she just needed to get it out of her system. I kind of get it, she didn't have the tools to hold it all in and deal with whatever had annoyed her appropriately. It was horrible though and I worried that it wouldn't ever stop.

Now she's 6 she'll still have an almighty strop from time to time but we don't have to deal with violence happily!

What really works for my DS is we made him his own ‘secret den’ which is a cordened off bit at the end of the living room that his younger and older sibling aren’t allowed in. He doesn’t get his games ruined then and also he is beginning to use that area to self regulate and will go there to calm down. Not always but sometimes

Thanks so much everyone. I think there’s probably is at least a little jealousy there towards DS, so I’ll try and get more 1-2-1 times in.

Today was pretty bad again- i think I particularly struggle when we’re either out or about to go out. I think she can find these situations a bit stressful too so is subsequently more likely to lash out. Bit of a perfect storm 😔

Really not good advice....she needs help to work through her emotions and learn to regulate them, not rejection and punishment.

I've been there OP, I know it's not easy.
I would recommend reading 'The explosive child'.
And making sure she has lots of 1-1 time with you, especially round bedtime.
And ensuring she is encouraged to feel big in positive ways yet allowed to feel small when needed too.
It's hard when they have younger siblings....you kind or can't not expect them to behave better as they are older, and you can't always hold the younger one as responsible, but then the oldest can easily feel blamed for lots more and lash out at the younger one with resentment.

@notnowmarmaduke most kids' bedrooms are filled with toys, being sent there is basically a reward!

Shutting a child in a room could well be considered emotional neglect though :-/

In no way shape or form could sending a child to their room as a consequence of bad behaviour be classed as emotional neglect.

I know it looks easy to say, but it's challenging to see your own kid acting like this. Those violent outbursts were killing me when we got our baby #2, and my first boy wasn't happy about it.

'Putting a child in their room and leaving them there' without comfort for a length of time when they are in distress is definitely emotionally neglectful.

I'm not saying that it is 'classed' as neglect in the sense that SS are going to be getting involved, but nor would they get involved in someone smacking a child, and that's still physically abusive.

We went through something really similar with DS5 last year and I'd say

How to talk so little kids will listen
Calmer happier easier parenting
Siblings without rivalry
The book you wish your parents had read

In that order! We spent time recognising and verbally praising every single positive thing that he did. Essentially took the attention away from the bad behaviour and gave it to the good ones. If little sister was hurt she got the attention not him, and then we'd talk through calmly later what wasn't right with the behaviour rather than showing any upset in the moment. Basically any 'bad behaviour' invoked little to no reaction and good behaviour got parental attention. The reward of attention was enough to (slowly) change his behaviour. He's a blooming delight now. Took a while though.

Second this! And also talking a lot about what they can do with their big feelings. We said pummelling the couch, stamping feet or yelling at the river was acceptable, as well as calming breaths, shoulder taps, counting to 10 etc.

Honestly wish I'd had someone coach me through my anger as a kid. I've been learning too and it's a revelation. I used to basically hit and scratch myself once I'd been sent to my room. noone knows even to this day. Feels far healthier to learn how to process it in a sensible way.

sending a badly behaved child to their room is not emotional neglect. It is responsible parenting. Not disciplining appropriately is neglect. hence whole threads of people complaining their teens are rude. How is that preparing them for successful and happy relationships?